Did I Get the Job? (Interview Do's and Don'ts)

Come interview our support button!

In this episode of Grossly Competent, Steve and Patrick dig into the art of interviewing from both sides of the table, sharing practical tips and insights to improve your skills. Don't fall into the 'Tell us about yourself' pit-trap and arm yourself with effective strategies to make interviews more conversational and productive.

Oh, and never ask Steve what kind of comicbook character he would be.

(Obviously it's Jean Grey because she's busted followed only by Spawn. - Steve)

Bu before all that, Patrick talks about his run-in with author Ryan Holiday of The Daily Stoic while Steve gushes about an upcoming guest on the show he is clearly excited about.

You want some links!? Oh, we'll give you some links! (Becuase it's the right thing to do, of course.)

•  Author Ryan Holiday of The Daily Stoic
• Thekla B. Ross - The New Smoke Break: What's Really Killing Your Bottom Line...

Come for the chat, stay for the laughs, and run frmo our faces: we're Grossly Competent!

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• Give a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts,
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We appreciate you for listening!

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_04 0:29

Hello, and welcome to Grossly Competent, the learning development and adulting podcast that doesn't claim to be pretty. No, sir, but we'll happily pretend to be slightly competent. I'm your host, Steve the Green Council, joined by my co-host, the only known person to make a blind person cry on site, Mr. Patrick Ailshire. Well, thanks, Kermit.

SPEAKER_06 0:56

No, no, that is Kremmet. That is no, we are we are not doing copyrighted anything. That is that is Kermit.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

That was like my teaching license saying Partik. Yes. Well, thanks, Steve. It's always nice hearing that you've been thinking about me all week. Most people spend their free time with hobbies, friends, maybe a walk outside.

SPEAKER_06 1:28

Jokes on you have none of those.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

No, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_06 1:32

No, I of course I think about you, Mr. Patrick. I think about you when I have nightmares, and I think about you when I am feeling sad. So quite often. Uh just kidding. I'm joking, folks. Do not start worrying about me. Uh, but do you know who I am worried about? Is our sponsor of the week. We demand to know, Mr. Patrick. Who is it?

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Today's episode is brought to you by the Charger in the Other Room. It's always exactly as far away as you're unwilling to walk. Somehow every outlet in your house has become emotionally unavailable. The Charger in the Other Room, powered by inconvenience.

SPEAKER_06 2:22

Oh man. Wow. Thanks, big charger in the other room. Um, I am actually really glad that most uh I don't know, like small chargeable appliances, I don't know if that's the right word, um, are are all going to the same thing where it's like that USB C.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

USB C USB.

SPEAKER_06 2:46

That one. Um because there was really nothing more frustrating than you have like that weird parallelogram one, and then you have like the Apple one that had like the little divots on the front. Like you had to have like eight different varieties.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

The USB, the regular USB, yeah, yep, whatever, and it was yeah, just very super annoying.

SPEAKER_06 3:11

Super annoying. So now they've all kissed and made up, and we get to um pretend like they're always conveniently nearby when in fact they're not.

SPEAKER_05 3:22

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 3:23

That's wonderful. Patrick, man, what's uh what's going on with you, good sir?

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Uh well, I was I was fortunate to Wow. That's all I got. Trying to come up with one wanted to say it with that. Uh I was fortunate to get to uh idol's not the right word, but someone I look up to is one of my favorite authors. And you'll uh I was able to uh go to an event last night, a talk by this author named Ryan Holliday, and he is an author on stoicism, and he has written a handful of books over the last ten years on stoicism. And so my father and my brother and I went down to Chicago last night, and we not only got to see him talk, but we were able to do a meet and greet. Nice. I got to got to meet him, he did a he signed one of my books, but had a quick little like two-minute chat, and then we were able to get pictures together. So Oh, cool. We each individually talked to him, just kind of like, yeah, might as well we've we've paid for this experience. So we each went and said hi, and then at the end, my brother was kind of he came a little bit later, and so when he got up there, my dad and I were had come back in the VIP room, as they called it, and we were able to go chat with him again and all took a group picture.

SPEAKER_06 4:50

So Oh, that's really cool, man. Nice.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

It was an awesome experience, and glad I got to do it. So that's what's new with me.

SPEAKER_06 4:58

I mean, that's really cool. Like, and the fact that it's somebody that you really enjoy the message that they have, and you've brought up this author before. Like I swear you have. Um, but I tell you what, uh, let's make sure we toss some stuff in show notes. For sure. Yep. Maybe part of his um catalog of books or something like that. Nice, nice, man. Um, I have some exciting news for our listeners out there. Um we have a very special guest that will be joining us in, I believe two weeks.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

Sure. That's yeah, that sounds there.

SPEAKER_06 5:40

Yep. Yeah, two weeks. Something like that. Um, we are going to have the affamed Tecla B. Ross join us here on Grossly Competent. Um, she's amazing. She I think she is going to have some seriously awesome things to talk to us about. She really likes to focus on um how technology is stealing our attention and ways to take that power back. Um, but she does it in a really fun and interesting way. It's not dry even remotely. Um I I just I really feel like all of you listeners out there are really going to enjoy this. Patrick and I had the opportunity to see her at Disrupt HR in Milwaukee this past spring, and I have been clamoring to have her on this pod. She accepted against her better judgment, might I add, but she did no takebacks. Um, so she'll be joining us. I believe we are recording that one in two weeks. So uh that should come out a few weeks from now. Yeah, yeah, pretty soon. So cool stuff. I'm looking forward to it, man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Same here. We have a lot of work to do to prepare ourselves in the next two weeks to um continue to be awesome, is what I was trying to say.

SPEAKER_06 7:05

So well, um, I I always anybody that's out there, whenever I reach out, or Patrick, maybe you do too, but whenever I reach out to somebody like, hey, would you be interested in uh joining us as a guest on Girlsly Competent? I'm I'm always like it's pretty low brow. Like just putting it out there, folks. Like if you are expecting to elevate yourself, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're hoping you elevate us because we need it. Um I like to say that it was fun.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

I I like to tell people that, well, they how how is your podcast been successful? And I've said, well, our website has crashed seven times because of the usage of the users trying to you know listen in. So I think that is is that why it crashes? Oh no, we we we put our pictures on the website.

SPEAKER_06 7:58

That's why uh yep, yeah. So uh that's what I thought too. It was, oh, people are are clamoring to listen. It's like, no, they're actually trying to shut it down on purpose. Oh well, they learned something new every day. Uh no, sincerely, we are really looking forward to Tecla. Um, there's a couple of other irons we have in the fire that I'm also really looking forward to. Um and I guess stay tuned. We'll we'll let you know once uh those get approved. Or aka they they say yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

You put the iron back in the fire after you had touched your face initially.

SPEAKER_06 8:35

So yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how I got my complexion. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

No. Right. So, Steve, I got a question for you.

SPEAKER_06 8:44

Yes, I hope I have an answer.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

What would you say you do here? What? That's her segue.

SPEAKER_06 8:52

I mean, not her segue. Oh, is that her segue?

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 9:00

Okay. Jesus. Okay. So, fine listeners out there. I thought it would be super duper fun to talk about everyone's favorite pastime. And that is interviewing. We like everyone loves a good interview. Everyone just loves being on that hot seat and feeling like every single thing you say is being dissected. And like it's so awesome, right? Like, that's so cool. No. Yeah. I I'm being a smart ass, but uh, like all jokes aside, I I did recently have to do some interviews for a position I'm looking to fill. And I it just really got me thinking about like both sides of the coin, right? Like being the interviewer and the interviewee and the dynamic of that. And there's so many. You can't throw a dead cat on the internet without somebody being like, I know all the answers to your interview. Shut up. No, you don't, because it's all completely dependent. So I thought it would be worth because, and we've brought this up in the past, Patrick, that you have had a different work experience than I have, and it'd be kind of fun to kind of bounce our like, I don't know, do's and don'ts, if you will, like um, that you have found that have either worked for you or you've heard have worked for other people, things you'd recommend, and I don't know, stuff like that. Yeah, like it. I I don't know. I feel like we're always pretty good about the backforth formats. Uh do you do you want to start?

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Sure. Uh yeah, and I have also been on both sides. Obviously, I have interviewed for positions myself, but I've also been on a panel a few times throughout my career in different in different um fields that I've been in. So yeah, yeah, I'll be able to draw from that and share out the what's good, what's not so good.

SPEAKER_06 11:05

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

All that. So yeah, I can start if you like.

SPEAKER_06 11:10

Yeah, yeah. I was I was curious, do are you going to do this like do's then don'ts, or are you gonna do it like this is what I think you should do as an interviewer, this is what I you're gonna do as an interviewee. Whatever you want to do.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

We'll start with whatever you want to do. I think maybe I think I'll start with just going as far I'm thinking off the top of my head here that I'll start with like as an interviewer what you what you should do and then maybe not do, and then we'll go back and forth. And so you're gonna share. So I want to start with just one thing that always kind of I hate the word, I hate the phrase grinds my gears, but like what's annoying to me, you know. What I never like that phrase. I don't know why. It sounds weird to me. But what what bothers me in uh being an interviewee, and so as far as what interviewers do, and that is my advice is to stick with one question question. So not making this multi-response crap, okay? So when I've been on both I've been on interview panels where like they already have the questions laid out, we're going and you know, we're kind of doing a round robin asking questions, but I've also been on the other end where I'm the interviewee and I get this two or three part question where like one, it's it can be confusing, and two, the person's interviewing, they're thinking about how to answer that first part of the question. They're they're they're not probably most like at least maybe that's me, my problem of lack of being able to comprehend that. But when I've been on those panels, when I've been an interviewee and I they ask two to three part, it kind of it's it gives you gets you flustered a little bit because you're trying to figure out like, okay, and I've done this before. We're like, could you repeat that second part? And then I answer the second part. Was there a third part to that question? It just throws off the I don't know the momentum or the flow. And so I really think that that companies can get a little bit more creative with what they're trying to ask without having to have so many different parts to that. Yeah. Those questions.

SPEAKER_06 13:20

That's just something maybe it's just I'm a little nitpicky on, but no, I think that's completely justifiable. Um I agree with you as an interviewee. I do not like those questions. I mean, I will certainly answer them because I am the interviewee. Yeah. Um, but I I find myself doing the same thing you do, man, where you're like, I'll answer the question and then I'll actually stop be like, oh, I never actually fulfilled the entirety of it. Like I only got to the first part. Do you mind if I also get to the second? Um, and then I kind of continue from there. Um, as an interviewer, um, I know I've certainly asked those uh multi-question questions, but and not to say that my my way of doing it's perfect, but I like to think that even though there's multiple questions to it, you can answer it with one stone, perhaps. Like it's a two-bird, one stone kind of a thing. Like, hey, how do you handle feedback and criticism? Like, you technically I asked you two different questions, right? But you can answer that in one swoop, really. Yeah, like I mean, that's a really generic, I really generic question, but I just it was the first thing I came talking about.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Yeah, I'm thinking more like how do you handle what was it, criticism and whatever that first feedback criticism, yeah, whatever. Tell me about that then tell me about a time that it didn't go so well, and then come up with a scenario where it could work, but maybe it won't work, and then what did you have for lunch this morning?

SPEAKER_06 14:58

It's breakfast, you know, like and what's my name again?

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Oh, that's embarrassing.

SPEAKER_06 15:04

That would be yeah, yeah, that's tough, right? Uh no, in that vein, dude. I could not agree more with that. Yes. So I think as an interviewer, um, well, we've talked about it. Um, the KISS method, right? Try to keep it simple. Keep it simple, Steve. Keep it simple, Steve, even though I'm already simple enough. Um did you can I jump in on this? Yes, please. Um what kind of uh I don't know if it necessarily falls into the same category, but um, I have found as an interviewer, um, folks, this might come as a shock, but I like to talk. Mm-hmm. Yep. Suspend belief. Um, one of the one of the things I have had to really work on and train myself is to let the interviewee do the majority of the speaking. Um I will certainly help to a degree, like if I want clarification or if I really vibe with somebody's answer, I'll be like, oh, that's kind of like this. This is really cool. Um, but it it is very important to make sure that you're you have invited them into your domain, and it is important that you give them that respect. Let them do the talking.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Yeah. And then let me jump in on the on the other side of that, is that when I I completely agree, I think it should be like a 2080 thing, like the the interviewee should be talking 80% of the time. But with that said, I think a a good tip would be about 30 to 60 second max response. Like get to the point, kind of goes to one of my next thing, and I know I know for sure I have brought this up on here, this podcast before at some point of the uh the uh this is kind of for the interviewee now, obviously, but don't get caught up in the tell us about yourself trap.

SPEAKER_06 17:02

Oh my god, I fucking hate that one so much.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

We've talked about it though, because it's if you're not an experienced employee, uh you haven't been to many interviews before, you may not understand what that question means. And so I'll just spell it out. Tell us about yourself isn't a question for you to talk about your hobbies and your likes and your dislikes. What the employer, the company is trying to know is tell us about your work experience and how you can bring that to this position. It's just a back way to say it, but I and I know firsthand that a lot of people don't always know this response because when I worked in the entertainment industry, we did a resume and interview skills class, and we would do we would do mock interviews for some of these employees that were maybe wanting to at some point move up in the company. So they might have been they might have been frontline, maybe they wanted to go hotel, casino, vice versa, and different positions, but they had an interview for those positions. So we would do mock interviews and plenty of I mean, these kids, I'm calling them kids, 18, 19 years old, don't know any better. And they and it was tell us about yourself and this one gentleman, really nice kid, it was like it was so I I don't remember it verbatim. This was six, seven years ago now, but uh well I uh live with my mom and my sister, and I really I love playing guitar, and uh, you know, I like it. It was just the nicest response, like the most wholesome response. But I I stopped him after a minute. I was like, hey, that's uh you got a lot of cool stuff going on outside of work, but it let me stop you right there. What this question's actually asking is in your current position as blah blah blah, table games, whatever you were doing, how can you how can you take that and bring that to this position that you're applying for?

SPEAKER_06 18:55

Yeah. So it was it's what and I will add to this that uh you're right, it is God, it's such a trap. And I know in my early years, I absolutely fell for this one. Oh god, so hard. Like I think about that, it's like, well, I didn't know any better. I mean, I don't cringe at it, it's just like I didn't know. Um I oh I I I want to say it was like a LinkedIn course, I swear to God. Um, I'll see if I can't find the specific person that did this course. Um, but the the advice they gave, uh I I stand by it and uh it is it actually helped me land the current position I'm in. Um, and that is when you get that question of tell us about yourself, um it's to start off with a representation of who you are as a professional, and then give a brief back history. So, like case in point, uh I'll kind of explain what I mean by that. She does a much better job, by the way. So um I remember when I interviewed for the position I'm in currently, this question came up, like, oh, tell us about yourself. And I'm like, it instantly my head was like, God damn it. But I went, okay, I'm like, I I'm an educator at heart through and through. I'm like, I've my passion is when somebody walks away from something that I've been able to help them or I've created, and they are a better person because of it. And that's because I genuinely believe that. Like, that is what has I've always loved about learning and development is the learning part and the development part. Like two, they get smooshed together. It's awesome. Um, and then I explained that I've had X experience in these different industries. Then I can briefly sprinkle in my actual professional career. Um, and after the interview, and once I was hired, um, the COO actually had come up to me and said, one of the things that really sold me on you is you started things off when we asked tell us about yourself. It wasn't uh some like self-affliction thing. You just flat out said, I'm an educator. And he's like, That really sold me on you right from that point. I was like, damn. Like, so if you're really big into like strategy, like you mentioned this this uh kid talked like tabletop games. So it's like, are you a big strategy person? Strategy is very important in the professional atmosphere. Like, bring that up. Like, I have a strategic mind, and that has really helped me in these ways, which then, as you said, how can you bring that to the organization you're interviewing with? You can marry those things together. You have gold. Like, that's it's a really important thing, it's a skill, and you have to practice it. But yeah, really cool, good response, though. Well, and it's good insight. That you brought up too of it is such a trap, man. Like I I didn't have that on my list, and it's absolutely a trap. Holy hell. Yeah. Um, you know, it's funny. We we talked about um I I mentioned letting the interviewee do most of the talking, and now I'm going to actually flip that a little bit.

unknown 22:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 22:27

Um, you said the 80-20, which I'm like, yeah, I totally agree. And now I'm gonna go against that because I have squirrels in my brain, and that's how it works. Um I have always found that the interviews, whether I'm an interviewer or interviewee, um, that I have felt the best about and I've had the um the greatest successes with, are the ones that feel the most conversational.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 22:54

Like, so there should be a back and forth. Like, as a matter of fact, like um, I don't think there's anything wrong with like when you answer somebody's question, like, oh, you know, tell me about a time you did this, and I'll give my answer. It's like, is that like does that clarify it for you, or is there anything that you felt like I could have done better? Like, is there something that you see in that scenario that you would have improved on? Like, I kind of kick it back too because I want it to be an actual conversation. A lot of times I'll get mad like, oh no, like I think that's that's probably fine. Like, okay, cool, we're on the same page.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

Throw them off a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 23:37

Well, and it's not meant to be like some head game, it's just meant to be like, well, you're interviewing me just as much as I'm interviewing you.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Yeah.

unknown 23:47

Right.

SPEAKER_06 23:48

So I think the more conversational you can be, you show your true character in that too. Everybody and their mom can memorize a a resume, but the resume doesn't tell the story, you tell the story. It's important that people see you as a conversationalist, that you you actually have the social skills to carry on a conversation. Unless like the position isn't customer-facing or people facing that fact. It's like, well, then fine. I I have no I can't help you because I've never had that kind of a position.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

That's funny that you brought this up because one of my points was for the interviewee, is take a deep breath. It should feel like a conversation. Oh, it's perfect. So you're right. So in a way, I I I mean, I I get your your point too of like maybe not the 80-20 as far as you know, because of if you're an interviewee and you're saying, like, oh, sure, does that does that clarify things? And so, yeah, there's gonna be some more maybe give and take. Um, but yeah, it's generally it is a conversation between three, four people who, you know, interviewee and then whoever's on the panel will say, um so I think that's just to get people more comfortable too, to say, like, this is you know, this is you're not on trial here. This is just this is a you know, it's a conversation between someone who currently has a title and someone who wants to work for the company.

SPEAKER_06 25:53

So yeah, uh there's something. Do you mind if I add to that real quick? Please, yeah. Because I think something that you you kind of touch on with this, you're not on trial. Um most people that despise interviews, uh, it's because they feel like they're being scrutinized. And it I used to feel that way. Like I used to hate interviewing. Like, man, I used to hate it so much. But then once I got past that notion of like I'm on trial, and then I gravitated towards this is just a conversation. Um, and like I I might crack a joke or like just something like that, but it's conversational, it just really sets the tone for who you are as a person, and it'll also help you feel more personable to the organization because you're right, it's just other people in the room that happen to be working at the place that you have an interest in. And quite frankly, if you feel like you are being scrutinized to the nth degree and you can't have it conversational, my follow-up question to you is do you really want to be there to begin with?

SPEAKER_03 27:12

So um that yeah, that's that's well, that leads into uh uh my next point as far as with the interviewer is remember that the interviewee is also seeing if your company would be a good fit. Be honest with your be honest with your answers to their questions. Don't try to sugarcoat there's there's some things that you're they're gonna ask that you can't maybe answer because it's it may not be appropriate for an interview, or it's something that it's just I don't know what they would ask, but like still something where you have to kind of give generalities. But like don't you know, oh how's uh how's the culture? Let's say someone asks that, which is I think is an odd question to ask in the interview because what how do you respond to that? But like yeah, oh it's gr it's great. Everyone loves each other, we get together for happy hour every Friday. Don't don't say that if that's not true. Um you know, everyone's best friends, like don't make stuff up, um, whatever the question might be, you know, it be honest, be truthful, and I think that's the best way to go about it because again, it is like you said, that person that's in the opposite chair is thinking they really should. And again, there's I get it, people, there's times where it's like, oh my gosh, I need a job so bad. But at the end of the day, again, do you really want to work for a company where a month or two from now you're gonna think, what am I what did I do? Why did I get myself in the situation? This this culture, this culture is toxic, or this is not the place for me. So you have to ask those qu you have to ask some sort of question to figure out, you know, is this a place I want to work? And then obviously it once you actually get there, then you start to kind of see the truth. But uh I think you can kind of weed out some of those responses. If you have if you maybe people in the interview, they're starting to sweat when you ask them questions or they're not prepared, or you know, you could say like I've asked this question before. It's been a while, but uh in an interview I've I've said like what do you what do you love about working here? And if the oh uh the the free beer after work. You know what?

SPEAKER_06 29:29

Okay, you know have you heard of zero proof paths?

SPEAKER_03 29:34

You know, like oh uh I I love that I don't work very hard. Like, okay, well, this yeah, maybe maybe I don't want to be here if this they don't have res good responses to the question.

SPEAKER_06 29:46

I have I have so yeah, uh that's always a good I I don't know. I like that question. I like it when I ask it, I like it when I have to answer it. Um, because it gives me I as a matter of fact, I I think I said this earlier that I did an interview for a position um that I'm trying to fill just today, and that question was posed to me. And um I my answer was I love the fact that I know the people I work with have their heart in it for all the right reasons. And I that's not me blowing smoke. Um I I am I am nothing if I am not authentic. Like I will tell you what I genuinely think, uh good or bad, right? And this is something I truly believe. I I I love that part. So when she asks that, uh, and I don't know if she she can think I'm uh full of it or whatever, but if this person decides to work for us, um I think she's gonna find out very quickly that, oh, he was very sincere with that. That is the truth, and that's what I want. I want them to see that. So yeah, yeah. I like that a lot. That's good. Um, and I would actually say uh both ways. Uh, if you are the interviewee, do not embellish.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:08

Don't. Please don't. I don't even have that as my don't, but please don't do that. Um one of my one of my uh uh don'ts was do not answer the question of why are you interested in this role with I needed to make sure my unemployment doesn't stop. Don't don't do that. Um I'd love to tell you, I've never had somebody say that to me, but I've had in fact someone say that to me. Uh yeah. Yeah, so there's that. So please, please don't. Sometimes I will get a chuckle out of somebody if they're just very blunt about something, like, I admire your honesty. Like, uh, what are you interested in? They're like, it's a job and has benefits, and I have a family.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

You know what, man? I can respect that.

SPEAKER_06 31:58

Like I get it. Uh, sure, fair enough. Well, let's make sure you're the right fit for this. Um, and then we have to be a bit serious, but I'll admire that to a degree of like, okay, like you know what you want and what you need. I can respect the hell out of that.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

That's funny. It's like, but I I also don't know if that sets like a great impression initially. Because I have and one of my one of my points was as an interviewee, don't ask about benefits or salary in the interview. I don't I to a so I would say it depends, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think like so I'm in at my I'd say I've got a few questions or whatever, and like so one of my questions is like, what's the I I think there's a way to ask it. So basically, I noticed that the salary range wasn't listed, maybe, but versus like how much do I get paid? I think that's that doesn't that doesn't come off good. Or when does my when does uh when does my health insurance kick in? Like I just think like if you're if you're thinking a little bit too far in advance that that maybe it's a little bit too urgent.

SPEAKER_06 33:15

Interesting, I can see your perspective on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:18

The job description should here's the problem with a lot of companies. I and again, I work in public service, so it's all open records. So one of the reasons I actually applied for the job is because there was a salary range listed, and the company I was at before, I was like, oh, I do all I was reading the description and I was like, oh, this looks a cool position. This looks awesome. I do that already, I do that already, I've done that before, I can do that, but I don't make that. And so it was one of the honestly, one of those like, well, this is a this would be worth it if I got this position. Yeah. But I just don't understand why companies can't be transparent. I agree. A ball just a ballpark. It doesn't have to be you don't even have to say, well, this is the top range for this position, so we're not gonna start you there. But like people go through the whole process, and if it's like a lowball offer where you're like, wow, I just wasted my time, you just wasted your time, have at least some I don't know, decency. And I I'm sure there's some reasons why companies don't do that, but I think like part so kind of full circle back to my response was not trying to ask too personal questions, but also I think it's okay to have at least some understanding before you go into the interview.

SPEAKER_06 34:36

Oh, yeah, definitely. Um one of the things I will mention, uh, because you brought up benefits and salary. Um, a couple of times that I've had it where I'm the interviewer, um, that the interviewee will ask that is almost always because they're the insurance holder.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Primary, sure. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:58

So it's like, hey, so I'm the primary insurance holder for my family, like I have the benefits. Um, what does that look like here? Um, and and that makes sense. It's like, okay, yeah, if you're going to leave from one position to another, are you more generic in your answer?

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Like, well, we have health insurance and no.

SPEAKER_06 35:18

Uh I'll talk to them about like when that would start kicking in and stuff like that. Absolutely, because I know from that experience of like, well, if you tell me it's gonna be 90 days, I have to think of a contingency. Oh, yeah, that sucks when they don't. Okay, like, do I just strap into Cobra and just take that beating to the face? Like, yeah, no, what do I do? So, um, what I've also found is when you open up that door and have that conversation, like companies worth their salt will usually try to work with you, like, hey, I understand. Like, let me see what we can try to figure you, like, help you out with in this. Like, is there a way for us to whatever prorate into like whatever we can do to try to help? Um, so in that vein, that's where I kind of do hesitate to agree with the don't ask. Um, because if it's something that can be like part of the remedy, sure. Yeah, like hell yeah, man, why not? Um, yeah, how much this pay? Please don't do that. Um, but talking about like, hey, just want to confirm this is a salary range, uh, is that still correct? Yep, like okay, great. Um, yeah, that that works for me, or is there wiggle root? Like, you can have that conversation depending upon your comfort level, that's acceptable. Um, there was something else I was gonna mention. Shoot, oh, um, I don't know, maybe it's just my own bias, but if you ever come across a job description that does list the salary range and it's like this pays out forty two thousand to three hundred and ninety-eight thousand, you're like, Really? Really? That's your range? A half a quarter of a million dollars is the range? Like, next, like that, oh, that kills me so much. Like, if there is that big of a discrepancy, they're full of it.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

We love the uh LinkedIn descriptions of or any job description that says uh experience required seven years uh fresh out of college.

SPEAKER_06 38:13

Yeah. Yes, or it's uh you must have ten years of experience with this product that's been around for two.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:21

It's like, hey now, that's not fair.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Speaking of questions, I will add that for the interviewee to obviously have questions prepared. And I always like to tell I tell people this have so have questions obviously prepared for the end of the interview because the interviewer, interviewer, is going to say what questions you have for us. And if you I assure you, if you answer I don't really have any, not a good look, okay? Have something to show your interest in the company and you can so I always say have at least five, okay? But here's what I say I say five, but more. The reason is because they might have answered two or three of those questions in the interview itself. So you don't want to go back and say, oh, well, actually, I was that was all my questions. So have at least a few that show you're interested, that you can kind of pivot if you need to. Um, because again, you want to at least start up here and look that you really do want this job and you're excited about it. So I think that's a great little tip to say. Have those questions. But you know what, come up with more just because you never know how much time is going to be left. I've I don't know if I've told you this, Steve, but I the company I'm currently at, it was the second round interview, and I was meeting with the director of the department. So it would be like my my boss's boss, essentially. And it was a it was during early COVID, so that it was a virtual interview. And I had already asked the first time I had a panel of three peop three or four people, and I had asked five questions during that interview. So before this next round, I like researched like another six or seven just in case. Like I but I want new questions because I don't want they're gonna trade notes, I don't want this. Oh, he asked the same questions last time. The interview starts off with gentleman says, Hey, I'm so-and-so. Yeah, nice to meet you. His questi, his first question what questions do you have for me? It was an hour of me asking. I mean, he he's very long, very long-winded, but that was how the interview Thank God I had questions prepared to ask him because that's awesome. I would have been like, uh, I don't have any. Now we're sitting there at a minute into the interview, and it's like basically over.

SPEAKER_06 40:38

Thank you for your time. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, uh, I I definitely agree. Uh, you know what? Uh, I'm going to expound on that. I don't have this on my little cheat sheet here. Um bring like a pad of paper, like something to write. Yeah. Because like you once again, you'll notice that the interviewers are writing things as you answer things. Feel free to write down your own things as they answer your questions too.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

Um and if don't be afraid, sorry to cut you off. Don't be don't be afraid to have your questions on like note cards. Don't have to memorize, you know, have all this stuff. Nope, no one's expecting that. So write the questions down. So I've I always just bring usually note cards with me just to it. Oh, yes, this one and so on. Sorry to cut you off.

SPEAKER_06 41:28

I've even done it where um like I said, I'll do like a whatever, like a notepad kind of a thing, right? And I'll have my whatever five to ten questions. And if during the conversation one gets answered, I'll circle it. And I'll even be like, oh, well, you actually beat me to that one, so that's perfect. Like you already answered that one. Great. Like, one less thing we have to talk about at the end. And like I'll kind of like announce that to be like, yeah, I I did have that, but you beat me to it, so clearly it was something you did want to talk about. Um, and it just kind of gives once again that conversational piece. Just like you and I right now we're having a conversation about this, and we ask each other questions and give our own little anecdotes and whatnot. Um, that's exactly the same way it should feel.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_06 42:20

Yeah, I I like that. Um, let's see, what else do I want to mention on here? Um oh, this should be obvious. Uh don't, and this is for both of you, uh, don't come late.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Oh, God.

SPEAKER_06 42:40

Don't come late. If you're the interviewee and you don't have a really, really good reason for coming late, just don't even show up. Um now there are extenuating circumstances. Um, high traffic, an accident, like things happen. Um, but thank goodness we have these strange rectangular devices that we can make phone calls with. And like, yes, I'm being kind of condescending on this, but dude, no, and then in the same vein for the interview er, uh, don't be a dick.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:26

Like, what? Don't be a dick. If they came, don't make them wait longer. What are you doing? No, show up on time, do the things you need to. I uh actually I I'm not gonna name the organization, but I did an interview. I I met with a uh recruiter, and she is lovely. Uh, her name is Tanya, and I still talk to her, and she's a delight. Um, she set me up with this organization. I was like, okay, yeah, it sounds really uh intriguing. This is uh when I was laid off, so yeah, whatever. I it wasn't like I was hopping from one to another. No, I'm looking for a job, man. And this recruiter was like, I think I got one for you, and I think this is a good one. Um it was the first meeting, it was a teams meeting. Okay, or like Zoom, whatever the hell, right? Yep. Um, I waited on there for 15 minutes. Oh no. And I can't, I can't this is not an exaggeration. Um they got on. It was supposed to be one person, there was two. Um, but they were using the same camera, which I don't care. That's fine. Um, the main interviewer, um, after about seven minutes, I'll say, uh, looked at his watch and goes, Jesus Christ, I'll be right back. And gets up and leaves. And the other person is this younger woman who I I cannot stress this enough. This is a true story, had a fucking brown paper bag, like one like. Like a sandwich bag, right? Filled with like parade candy. And she just sat there piece by piece, unwrapping it, eating it, and just talking to me. For about 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Not exactly. Was this a fast food joint?

SPEAKER_06 45:38

No, no, no. If I was to name blast this place, um, you'd be like, Wait, what? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:49

Unreal.

SPEAKER_06 45:50

Like a very reputable organization. Well, that's it was so wild.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

I'm glad you brought that up because I was gonna ask before we transition uh this conversation was gonna be have you had any crazy experiences? Literally. I was I was already thinking on the opposite side as a as a panelist before. So that um that was my story.

SPEAKER_06 46:15

That beats my story, but that was well the the kicker. So after the interview, um the recruiter contacted me, right? And was like, exactly. I was like she emailed me, so I emailed her back. It's like, can I call you? Which must be good. Never never was like, of course, dying inside. Um, so she takes my call. I'm like, all right, Tanya, I just I have to tell you this story because it would be a novel if I wrote it out for you. And I did, I I told her the whole thing, and she I think she had to have lost 10 pounds laughing. Like, she is trying to catch her breath. She's like, I have never been so embarrassed for something I wasn't even a part of. Like, you did nothing wrong. I'm like, it was I'm like, just when I thought she was out of candy, another another Tootsie roll came out. I'm like, I don't know where it is coming from. Like, it was so and then her the this young woman's response was I skipped lunch. Apparently you did.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

Like, you are not wrong. Good thing you got those fiber-filled treats to fill you up.

SPEAKER_06 47:34

Well, what I found out after, and Tanya, well, Tanya was like, Okay. Um, this isn't gonna look good. She's like, um, so that young woman that you reference, uh, that is the owner's daughter.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Um no way.

SPEAKER_06 47:54

I was like, oh, so I don't have a shot. But you know what the funny thing is? I actually got called for an on-site interview, and the the uh God, I can't believe I'm saying this, but whatever. Enough time has passed, and I just I'm good, I'm nothing if not transparent and honest. Um, I was turned down for the position, and that is completely okay. That's fine. Uh, but the reasoning I was turned down for the position is because remember the gentleman I said that uh seven minutes in goes, Jesus Christ, I got I gotta leave, and then never came back. Um he told Tanya, yeah, he felt like a way different person than who I was talking to on the Zoom call.

SPEAKER_05 48:40

I was like, what? Oh my god. You didn't talk to me.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

Candy Earl talked to me.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

That is pretty fantastic. That's a great story.

SPEAKER_06 48:53

Oh man, yep. That was that's easily one of my favorites. The runner up would be, and this one's very short. Very short. Um, I was in college. I know, hold for applause. I was in college, and we had a gym that, like, the olden days. Yeah, yeah, those like real olden days. Um, that you could work at, and it was like super part-time, whatever, a couple hours here and there, nothing crazy. Clean some gym equipment and whatever. And I sat down for the interview, and they mentioned, like, oh, you're gonna need to like make sure you know like the muscle groups and all this kind of stuff. I'm like, oh, I don't know any of that. So I like I like did flashcards and all sorts of stuff. Yep. So I sit down and I'm like, I am ready for this. And the first question was, if you could be a superhero, which superhero would you be? And I pushed my chair back and I stood up and went, I thought we were gonna have a serious interview. Clearly, I was wrong. Um, thank you for your time. And I grabbed, I started grabbing my things, and they like just could not believe what was happening. Uh, they're like, uh, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's it's okay. Just have a seat. Like, no, no, no, like it's it's okay. Like, there's other people waiting. Uh, you can you can have them come like that's okay. This is clearly not for me. Like, I'm not gonna answer that question because it's ridiculous. And I am a comic book nerd, and you're not gonna like my answer. Like, no, this is ridiculous. Um, I end up getting the job. Wow, I end up getting the job. So uh I was true to myself and I was like, no, I'm not taking a ridiculousness. And I think they were genuinely like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

You left the interview and they gave you the job.

SPEAKER_06 50:45

I did not. I sat back down and they did not ask me any more of those BS kinds of questions. Um, and sure enough, yeah, I beat out like 10 different people for the job.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

That's so funny. Holy crap.

SPEAKER_06 50:57

Like, what? What what superhero? Shut up. If you ask that, or like what kind of animal are you? Whoever is listening, if you get that one, just get up and walk out. You're like, this is clearly not a respectable place. You're ridiculous. No. Stop it. Naughty. Okay. I will get off my soapbox. I would like to hear your horror story.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

So I was on a this was my first teaching job. And I had resigned, so I took a job. I was at a I was working at a charter school. I'm sorry, a uh parochial school, and I got a job in public education, so I was like, oh, I need I'm gonna take that position. Um so I'm now I'm gonna be paid in rocks instead of dirt, so it's an upgrade. Um but I was asked to be on the interview panel for the uh the p person that was gonna fill my position. It's a small, obviously parochial school, so you know there was there was gonna be um five I think three or four there was five of us on the panel. It was four teachers and the principal. So we interviewed th we interviewed three people. The split was we went around basically after the interviews, and two people really liked this one woman. She had her children went to the school. She knew the she knew the the church really well. It was it would have been a she was a teacher, it would have been a good fit. The other person was a young college student that was really energetic, would probably be a great teacher, but also very young. So it was like split two to two, okay? There's five people on this interview, right? So there's gonna be a deciding factor. Here's the thing, I don't know the principal uh has already made his selection. So he he's he's the ultimate, he's the principal. There's four teachers he goes to me, well, you're the deciding vote. No, uh because I had already I had already basically like I was pushing for this parent that was already like she she's she's a substitute teacher here, she knows the kids, she knows the curriculum. I was basically trying to save this young teacher, like you don't want to start your you'll get a job in public education, it's gonna be a better fit for you. I was just kind of trying to that was my mindset of like why I wanted to go to this other teacher. But I hadn't got to give my opinion yet. The principal jumped in and he was like, Well, you're the deciding vote. So I've got four I'm I'm leaving the school, so I don't really care, but at the same time, I'm like, you're the you're our boss. You you don't tell the teachers to make this this is someone's livelihood.

SPEAKER_06 53:53

I should not so afraid you were gonna say the principal pulled out a coin. Like I genuinely was like, oh like that's where I yeah obviously listeners can't see my face, but I was like, oh no.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

Oh not that bad, but that should never choice that you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:18

That's a rough one.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

And then another crappy time I will say I won't name the district, um, but I was it was in public education. I was on a pay so we were hiring a reading intervention reading coordinator for the district, okay? They in it we had three we down to three people, and so what they did was they wanted to do a round robin interview. So the three people that that interviewed for this final position came in at the same time, but they broke them into three groups. The first group was with this uh one teacher who was doing tours of the school in the district, so it was like a 45-minute kind of window.

SPEAKER_06 55:00

Perfect.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

They were all 45-minute windows. The second group was the principal and the superintendent doing the interviews, like a one-on-one. The third group was me and 11 other teachers doing a panel interview.

SPEAKER_05 55:16

Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 55:16

Okay, brutal. At the end of the night, uh we knew one person, we're like, no, not great. But the other two we but we all literally liked. At the end of the night, the principal and the superintendent come in and they say, Hey, what'd you guys think? We unanimously voted one of the per the people uh 12 to 0. They said, Thank you for your time. We're gonna go with this other person.

SPEAKER_06 55:50

Uh I love your opinion, uh, but I don't give a shit.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

Here's here, but here's the problem. The superintendent was a total jerk, and he was doing this for a reason. He was telling the school board, hey, we we did this interview, and this is what has been decided. If he if none of us, we would we were there like three or four hours. I mean, because we they fet they gave us like dinner and stuff, but then we were at these three rounds of 45 minutes each, you know, it was after school. We're not we're not paid for that, it's just after school. If he would have said, well, the teachers didn't want to be on the panel, that was his other he could have used it. So didn't we had said, well, this is why we have 12-0. He goes, didn't even let us explain why. No, we've already made our decision. We all went home. We're like, what the hell just happened? Wow.

SPEAKER_06 56:44

Oh man. Name and shame. No, I'm just kidding. No, no, no, we won't. Um, but you can whisper it. They can't hear it if you whisper it. I'm kidding. No. They they can. Uh wow, that's wild. That what a slap in the face.

SPEAKER_03 57:05

It wasn't like it was, you know, 7-5, 9-3. It was 12 to 0. We were unanimous that this teacher should have been hired, and they said.

SPEAKER_06 57:18

Well, I mean, I guess on that note, Patrick, do you know who picked us 1 to 0?

unknown 57:29

Ooh.

SPEAKER_06 57:31

Actually, wouldn't it be zero to one? Picked a zero to one.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 57:35

Didn't pick us.

SPEAKER_03 57:37

For sure. Uh, I would say a fine person known as the spinnerouski.

SPEAKER_04 57:43

The spinnerouski.

SPEAKER_06 57:46

I probably should have asked, did you have anything else you wanted to add? But I kind of felt like the let's end on the funny stories. The funnies. Umright folks, it is the spinneruski while Mr. Patrick fires up the wheel. A reminder for all you wonderful listeners out there. Each episode we spin the spinneruski. It's a wheel of knot and blah blah blah names that might belong to the woman who so generously shoved Mr. Patrick and I into the Ugly Club all those years ago. And the goal is that eventually we land on her name so we can thank her properly. We are on officially name number 49. Right now, tonight. Tonight number 49. That's great. I mean, we're whittling on the names. There is a chance that we have already named her, but we don't know it. So right.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

We haven't we haven't heard from them yet.

SPEAKER_06 58:41

That's true. With that, Mr. Patrick, are you ready?

SPEAKER_03 58:46

If if you're a you're a betting man, you have a uh one in 134 chance.

SPEAKER_04 58:54

Spend that rollsy.

SPEAKER_03 59:04

The names are so small I can't even read it. Ooh, this is a good one. Penelope.

SPEAKER_06 59:11

Penelope pit stop.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

You got it.

SPEAKER_06 59:15

Wacky races? Sorry. Uh Penelope. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 59:21

Thank you so much, Penelope.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

I love that name. My friend's daughter. Whoa. Penelope. My friend's daughter is goes by Penny, but she's Penelope. It's a Penelope. It's such a beautiful name.

SPEAKER_06 59:35

It is a really beautiful name. Um Penelope. Uh, you're amazing. And I I could see it being a Penelope, especially if you uh are really Penelope Pitstop, and you just shove Mr. Patrick and I like there is no business, so you can race to Mr. Joe, who so politely declines. You know, now that I'm thinking about it, she rejected us, and in turn, he rejected her. The circle of life.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:13

Yeah, it it is a circle of life.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:15

I feel like um what's the one?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

We were like the ones who were eaten, and then the person that like ate essentially ate us turned around and also was eaten in a weird way.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:34

Yes. Anyway, wow, all right.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:44

Well thank you, Penelope.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:46

You know, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yep. The the the mouse eats the cheese and the cat eats the mouse. Except we're the cheese. Are we moldy cheese? We're moldy cheese. We're moldy cheese. Yep. So Penelope is a mouse. And Joe is the cat. What a terrible analogy. Anyway, uh well, thank you so much, Penelope. We appreciate you and uh everything you've given us. You're a delight, whether you know it or not.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

Penelope, I remember how hard you shoved me, but I forgive you if you just give us an email, give us a shout. We'll love to have you on the pod.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:29

We would love to have you on the pod. Every Penelope is just shutting this off.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

I'm I'm trying to act a little more excited for our spitter because I have been told that my excitement does not always match.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:46

Oh no, you're fine, dude. Shout outs?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and shout out you, Steve, for the awesome topics you come up with. Oh, dude.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:06

Because this one was fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:07

This was really fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:08

I don't deserve that, but that's very thoughtful of you. Um I wanna give a shout out to Yo mama. No, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:17

I mean, Mrs.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:18

Ayleshire, you are a delight, and you know I love you. Um I I don't really have a specific shout-out. I I feel kind of bad. Um yeah, nothing that really comes to mind.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:36

We can edit that in. Edit what in your shout-out when you think of it in like 20 seconds.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:43

No. Um no, I I I think just like I I don't want to just like throw one out there for the sake of throwing one out there, because um, there's been a lot of wonderful people that consistently reach out, and it's been really fun seeing YouTube, um, like all the different you know likes and whatever follows or whatever. Like that's pretty cool. Um, and maybe that's it. Maybe it's just um I I love seeing people interact, and I appreciate it immensely. There, there, there's my shout-out.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:19

That was well done.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:20

Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:21

Very well done.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:22

Thank you. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

I guess about that time. I think it is too. You ugly son of a biscuit.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:33

Your ugly sea biscuit.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:36

They do say it look like sea biscuit. Anyway, folks, that is it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us. Uh, also, uh, feel free to like and subscribe on YouTube. Uh, but until next time. Did you like what I was doing with my jaw? That was me.