Grossly Competent
Join Steve Counsell and Patrick Aleshire, your faithful - yet hideous - hosts as they share their love of Learning, Adulting, and all that is absurd in their world. If you like learning about careers, adult education, or listening to embarrassing stories from ugly people, look no further!
Come for the chat, stay for the laughs, and run from their faces: they're Grossly Competent.
Grossly Competent
Compliance Training Sucks?
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In this episode of Grossly Competent, hosts Steve and Patrick dial into a lively discussion about... Compliance Training!
Crickets
But seriously, the boys get into the push and pull dynamics of making training that is either engaging, entertaining, and can something be both successfully. Are documentaries considered training anyway?
And if that's not enough to get you pumped, Patrick talks about HR meetings that should have been an email. On the other hand, Steve discloses his DisruptHR presentation is officially live for all the world to see*.
*Disclaimer: Grossly Competent is not responsible for damage done to eyes, face, and your overall well after viewing Steve maskless. Viewer discretion is advised.*
Hello and welcome to Grossly Competent, the learning, development, and adulting podcast that does not claim to be pretty, but will happily pretend to be slightly competent. I'm just kidding, I'm not gonna say it the whole time like that. I am your host, Steve Council, and I'm joined by my co-host, the monster the boogeyman warns his children about, Mr. Patrick Ailshire. Am I under the bed or maybe closet or you know? I that's up to you, I guess. I don't I can't I can't dictate these things for you, my man.
SPEAKER_01Like I might actually be under the bed because I'm afraid if I'm in the closet, I might lock myself. If it's a closed door, like the bathroom. I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I I get it. They're tricky. Those locking mechanisms are real handles, tricky.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you. So come on, man. Yeah. You can tell, Steve, that you were a started the group project the night before kind of guy in school.
SPEAKER_00Oh that now, okay. Okay. Shots fired, dude. No. No. Here, I thought we were friends. I didn't realize. Man, I felt this pain in my back all day, and I was like, what is that? But it was actually the universe prepping me for the stab you just did. You were early bird with the homework or projects or never an early bird, but when it came to project work, I was very good about doing that with the team. Very good about it. Sometimes even to a detriment, I would say. So no, I was not the I'm gonna wait until the last minute kind of guy because I hated those kinds of people. And you know what's funny is when you talk to a lot of folks about that, like that guy in the group project, everybody says that, like, oh, I can't stand that guy. Someone 10 out of 10 of you were not not telling the truth, dear champ. Like, one of you's um the king of the jungle, and that is a lion. So who is it, right? Um, I I've always found that fascinating. I love it. Hey, anyway, wow, not that we're on a tangent or anything. It is so lovely to be here back and chatting with all of you fine folks, and you, Mr. Patrick, you're here too, I suppose. That's fine. Um, we have some awesome stuff to get into. I'm I'm really looking forward to today's episode, really because I'm genuinely curious as to your experience with this, Patrick. And I think we're gonna have a really nice back and forth on this because I feel like we come from two similar worlds, but different in maybe the way that we approach things. So I'm I'm curious if we actually align on this one or not.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_00But before before we get into that, the listeners demand to know who's our sponsor of the week, man? Who is it?
SPEAKER_01Today's episode is brought to you by sorry for the late reply. Oh god. The modern adults national anthem. Sorry for the late reply. Maintaining relationships through managed disappointment. Oh my god. I don't even want to say anything about this one because I this is uh this is a good one for me in my personal life.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Whether it's email or texting. Work. I'm I'm uh I follow the work policy. I'm I'm good with responding at work, being re being responsible there, but the uh the personal life is a whole other story.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I have certainly learned, like I I agree with you. Um there's times I certainly I mess up professionally. Um my big thing professionally is if I screw up and I respond to the message, let's say one, two, three days late, something like that, I do make it a point to say I'm very sorry for the lateness of my message. There are no excuses. This is entirely my fault. Like, I like to just like put that out there of like, I'm not gonna say, oh, it was a busy week. Everybody has a busy week. Um, uh this no, everybody has things going on, so I do like to put that out there of like, I need to own this. This is my fault. I'm sorry. What can I do to make this better? Um, and we talk about that all the time on this, but yeah, um personally, I was really bad about this man for like a really long time, to the point that I had friends that would call me Casper because I would ghost them. I was like, oh no, and it was it was not malicious, like it was not like I'm not answering. It just would be like I'd see the message and go, Oh, yeah, I'll get back to him, and then I wouldn't because I'd forget. So I have made strides to not do that. So this one really hits close to the code.
SPEAKER_01I'm much better with with texting versus emails sometimes, just like you know, agree. I've already I've already checked my emails at work and I've already and uh got my I'm responding to stuff on social media and text now, just like email, I'll get to it. I actually sent one today, Steve. This is for my my business. I sent one out um a response I got an email today is Thursday. I got an email on Tuesday morning, and I responded, and they responded back to me like an hour later, said, Thank you so much for replying so quickly.
SPEAKER_00And I laughed to myself because I thought I was I was responding 48 hours late, but well, and I guess that probably is a a nice read on like the individuals you're working with, too, right? Like sure if you if they have a 48-hour turnaround and they think that's quick, like oh well that's that's so if you can surpass that, you look even better, man. Like that's awesome. I think in those circumstances, just having that ability, like, hey, I screwed up, man. I'm sorry, but oh god, I think I boy when you say it's the modern adult national anthem. Oh dude. This is twice now in what six minutes that I feel like you have just pierced my heart. Brutal dude. Okay, I gotta change this. Well, I'm sorry. Thank you so much, big sorry for the late reply. I can't forget to thank our sponsor. Of course, because then they're not going to cash our check. R yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. Well, before we get into our chit chat, the normal chit chat, if you will, I was hoping to pose a little something for our audience. Are you cool with that, Mr. Patrick? Sounds awesome. So, Patrick and I, we talk and you listen, which is really great. And we talk about our mishaps and the pains, like you know, replating or replating, replying to a message late, or um, obviously anything about the workplace, adulting, whatever. But we've been chatting and we would actually really like it if we could hear directly from you, fine listeners. We want your questions for us. Like, what have you always wanted to ask Patrick and I, but maybe you haven't. Um, this is a great opportunity for you to interact with us, and we can maybe I don't know, maybe help you solve a problem or tell you how wildly incompetent we actually are. I guess we'll find out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and to do this, we'll need you to reach out to us, and you can do so by uh following us on Instagram and sending us a message at grossly competent. You can also send us an email at our Gmail account, grosslycompetent at gmail.com. We'll pick through those we've received and read our favorites in an incoming episode. Upcoming episode, goodness.
SPEAKER_00I'm actually looking forward to seeing emails come through on Grossly Competent at Gmail that aren't solicitors or somebody telling us how they can optimize our SEO. What up, Simon? What up, Simon? Let's get that book. Yep. Yeah, it's all good. So this will be nice. This will be really I I'm looking forward to it. I think this will be a lot of fun. If we can get, I don't know, handful or more, we can suss through them and figure out what we want to talk about. That'd be awesome. Yeah, it's a great idea. Well, it was a it was a combined effort. It was a combined effort. This is something that you and I have talked about previously in the past, and I just I feel like this is a great time for us to just kind of ha pounce on there. It's not like we're running out of ideas or anything. No, it's it's not true. It's not true. We have a Rolodex of ideas, guys, so strap in. Anyway. Um, I have some uh self-plugging. I'm not gonna lie. So um I'm intrigued. As Samuel L. Jackson says in Jurassic Park, hold on to your butts.
SPEAKER_01I knew that was coming. Hold on to your butts.
SPEAKER_00So, folks, my disrupt HR talk is now officially live on the interwebs, and it is available for your viewing and listening pleasure. Um, I am pumped. I have been waiting for this video so long, and now I get to share it with the world. I don't normally like to toot my own horn on these kinds of things, but I'm really proud of this, and I also recommend that you check out the other presenters because they are amazing, like they do such a nice job. I will make sure I put the link in our show notes so you can see, or they're five-minute presentations, so it's not like it's super long time. They are worth the watch, they're awesome. Can't recommend it enough. Disrupt HR did a fantastic job.
SPEAKER_01What was this again? Dick. I'm just kidding. I was freaking there, man. I loved it. Uh uh, no, that's super cool. I actually I didn't realize there was actually a camera crew there. Knowing that, I would have kept my shirt on. Yikes. But no, Steve, I I'm sure it was actually kind of surreal watching your five-minute speech back, your presentation, since I'm sure it actually kind of felt like a blur when you're up there. Just goes so fast. Which actually, now that I'm saying that reminds me of that uh that scene in old school when they're having the debate and Will Farrell kind of like blacks out, and then he just like sputters off this amazing, uh, amazing response answer. What happened? Like, I'm sure that was kind of like that where things were just happening so fast because you got the lights on you, literally the camera and all the eyes. And like you said, you told me, I I think it was on the podcast too, where you could barely see anyone because it was like being at a on a stage at like a concert, the lights are right on you, hard to see the audience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you and you're totally right. Yeah, like there was a certain parameter that you had to walk between, and if you stepped out of it, like you just got blasted by lights. But even if you stayed in there, yeah, it's just like the best way to explain it is it looks like you're looking out at an ocean of silhouettes. Like it's really kind of odd, but um, yeah, uh it was it was weird. It was definitely weird to watch it. Um, because I I really wanted to say, like, you know, I I know what it felt like giving it. I'm curious, like, what did it sound like? What could I improve on for the next time? Yeah, like what what works, you know? And um, yeah, it is definitely very bizarre. Um, but it was the I I god, I cannot stress enough. The disrupt HR, the whoever crew, wherever technical crew they had, they did so well. I mean, the the audio is incredible, the visual is fantastic. They do a nice job of kind of like slowly migrating between like the live you presenting and your slides. Like it's and it's seamless, absolutely seamless. So I don't know what company it was, but whatever company it is, they they knocked it out of the park. They were incredible.
SPEAKER_01That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Now, did you have I I'm trying to recall, and I have not seen the playback video yet since I had some things going on at work today. But did you have a microphone in your hand or was that was that a mic set? Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So we had a microphone in our hand, and it was an interesting one too, because there was the microphone for the the general audience for you to hear us, but then there was this added on piece. And if you look closely at the video, you can actually see it. Looks like you're kind of like holding like a giant microphone, like in a weird way, because there was a secondary microphone on it that was directly attached for the audio for the video. Okay, so like because if you ever notice that, like if you have a recording in a room of somebody speaking, you get that echo chamber effect and whatnot. Yeah um, this is crisp, like no pops, nothing.
SPEAKER_01It's the reason I asked is because I typically and when I'm speaking, I don't speak to super large groups at um at my organization. Sure. I so I'm just using my my loud speaking voice. Absolutely. In the past, I have had a microphone where it was uh the kind of the headset or the clip, you know, clip on your shirt type. Yeah, yeah, the clip on your shirt. But so I bring in the bring I this reason this was top of mind was last night I was at an event from my business and I was it's a sponsor in a uh it was like essentially it was a a dating um a dating company that does like these local events called Pitch a Friend. And so it's kind of a cool concept. So they what they do is you have people that are single and you can or you're you're dating someone, you want to pitch your friend who's single. So you put together like a three to five minute presentation. This is a nationwide chain. Oh my god, that's a nationwide chain, but they have a Milwaukee branch, and the person that runs the Milwaukee branch reached out to me and said, Hey, I've had people at these events, not for me for dating, uh, reach out and say, Hey, I'd love to have it at some spots that are more uh zero proof friendly. And so she said, Hey, if you want to be a sponsor sometime, so I was like, sure. So I went to this event last night, and I was able to during like the breaks between the pitches, I was able to uh to talk about zero proof. And so at one point she handed me the mic, and I started talking in the mic, and about 30 seconds into it, I was I don't know, it's weird for me. I don't do it a lot. Yeah, so I I put the mic down and I'm like, I'm just gonna talk like this. I don't know, it takes a while to get used to talking in a microphone. I don't know why. It doesn't bother me when I can like hear myself talking now or when I'm facilitating, but for whatever reason, talking into the microphone, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, I wonder if because I I obviously you and I can see each other for the listeners out there, and this is for your own safety that this is an audio only format. Um, but at least I I feel like we use our hands a lot when we talk.
SPEAKER_02Yeah right?
SPEAKER_00And when you have that microphone, like you are restricting one hand, and you're only able to do everything with everything like yeah, you only have the other hand to be like, oh, here I am doing this. I wonder if it's almost like this cognitive thing where you're like, now I'm restricted.
SPEAKER_01It that I think it's more so hearing my voice echo in the speaker. So at the we were at this bar, okay, and so it was it was hearing that where I'm like, no, I just want to have my voice project.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a great call.
SPEAKER_01It's something that I would have if I ever were in the case, like need to have a microphone all the time, I would just get used to it. It's just it's something that I I rarely use it, and so uh that just kind of brought me to when you were up there, it's yeah, something you would kind of get comfortable with.
SPEAKER_00Or I've done the whatever, like is that like the lapel mic? Yeah, right? Yeah, I'm okay with those. That's fine. Um, I I've never done a Britney Spears headset one. Like never rocked that. Uh, like the the Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake. Um, nope, never done that one. Um, yeah, mostly it's the lapel, I feel like. That's a very common one. Um yeah. That's fascinating. Now the funny thing is, is I don't want to, but I'm gonna start thinking about that if I ever have to do it. Like, what do I do with my hands?
SPEAKER_01What do I do with my hands? Will Farrell? Yeah, what's the one with John C. Riley. What movie is that?
SPEAKER_00Uh Teladega.
SPEAKER_01The race Teladega Nights. What do I do with my hands?
SPEAKER_00Yep, it's a fantastic one. So what I was I said I had to stay home, I I didn't have to stay home. I requested to work from home so I could work on these different projects. I was working on two different projects. Um Annual Compliance and our new higher orientation. Do now this is gonna sound really dumb, but I'm assuming you do some form of annual compliance training stuff, right? Yes, no? You're giving me a smile.
SPEAKER_01I'm laughing only because we use we use Day Force as our learning management system.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01Um fairly big sir, they're for the former Sur Surrey and Day Force, they've now just Day Force. They had some sort of upgrade within the last week, or we upgraded our system of Day Force in the last week, something like that, okay? And literally, like two days ago, uh, because of the upgrade, an email went out to every employee saying that they needed to do their uh their uh mandatory training, that it was due. Like it wasn't.
SPEAKER_00Oh gosh, no.
SPEAKER_01So there was a glitch in the matrix, as I like to say. Sure. Uh but to answer your question, yeah, we do annual compliance training. Ours is at the beginning of the calendar year. Oh, okay. And employees, I'll say, have roughly like 90 days to get it done.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Yeah, and we we don't do ours at the beginning of the year. We do ours, uh, I believe it is tax day, April 15th, to what whatever three months after that is. Sure. Because July. You know, math is hard. Thank you. Um, so yeah, whatever the time. Actually, I think we we might do 60 days. 60 days it is. Um, and that's to kind of add some buffer room in there just because we have um regulatory things that we want to make sure that are completed within a timely fashion. Um, but that that's besides the point. One of the things that I have kind of been mulling around because I am just like knuckles deep into this, is everyone hates compliance training. Everyone. The pe I know the people I have to take it. I've never met, I've never met a single L and D person that says they like it. I've never gone, oh my god, yes, corporate compliance training is the greatest. It's so much no, nobody, nobody ever says those things. Like, would you agree? Like, that's that's totally the truth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's you're absolutely correct. It's it's it's literally the worst.
SPEAKER_00It sucks. And like I feel bad for because of course, as the L and D people, it's kind of tagged like, oh yeah, I gotta do my compliance training. And I do think this maybe is a com uh comment for a different episode, but I do think that's part of why people, when they hear training, they go, uh, because they think of stupid compliance training, like, uh, I have to do this. Um, yes, right. So it got me thinking that I understand it is a necessary evil. We have to cover certain things. Um, we're a healthcare industry, or I I belong to a healthcare industry, so we have regulatory things we need to cover, HIPAA, um, resident rights. Like there's certain things that we need to make sure that we cover, correct? I guess what I I'm kind of curious about, and this is where I really want your opinion on it, like how you guys do it and whatnot, and kind of compare notes really is is there a a line that you can walk where you make it engaging and entertaining, or is Is it just engaging or is it just entertaining? Like, where does where's the parameters? Like, because there's certain things that we have to cover, sexual harassment, or something. It's like, okay, we have to cover that. You don't want to make that entertaining. You want to be like, hey, like, but you you want to make sure you have someone's attention so they understand the gravity of it. It's kind of the brush your teeth before bed corporate learning and development piece. Like it's what I'm saying making sense, or am I spinning in circles here? No, it is.
SPEAKER_01I okay I I completely understand the importance of this training. Yeah. But it is typically very super dry, like the desert, it seems. And I will say that from my perspective of my team is the one that actually sends these out. So it goes through HR, but it goes through learning development saying, hey, this is due in I think it's 60 to 90 days. Sure. My team has kind of an unwritten rule. We've always had this since I've been there of, hey, we're going to set the tone and be the first ones done with this. So like our goal is our team, let's get it done in the first week because we really should be setting that bar of, hey, this is important. Yes, it's not fun, it's not pretty, but it is important and it's a requirement for you to do, for us to do. And so I get mine out within the first few days of the new year. It's actually, I kind of don't mind that part of it where you're coming back after the holidays, and it's it's January 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and yeah, maybe you have a couple other things to knock out first, but also like, you know what? I gotta spend a couple days going through some of this training. And it's kind of just a an easier way to start a week, and especially after having some time off. Um but you know, I as I mentioned, I I think it is obviously very important, and it's it's I just think it's one of those necessary things that you have to do. I I don't know if it can be spruced up in any way, shape, or form. I I I like what you said though about that it should be engaging, but it may not be necessarily exciting because again, it could like you said, sexual harassment or active shooter, like that exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yes, like those are things that you want it. I'm I'm trying to choose my words correctly here, so our listeners out there don't have to go, oh my gosh, is he having an aneurysm? Um, I I think maybe my deeper question isn't even necessarily about corporate compliance training, it's just about training overall, maybe. And that is, does it need to entertain and be engaging, or is it acceptable to do one or the other? Like, and I I I guess I would assume at some point there's gotta be an overlap, right? Like there if there's a Venn diagram of it, there's gotta be somewhere they overlap, or things like, ooh, that's interesting. But I I that's just this talk of corporate compliance ring because it's such that monster in the closet of oh, I have to do this and I don't want to. But to your credit, you're right. It's a necessary. I don't want to call it an evil because it's not. It's there's a value to it, it's just not fun. That's kind of why I made fun of saying it's that brush your teeth before bed kind of thing. That you do it for the maintenance and the upkeep. You're not doing it because it's fun and exciting. Like I think that's a hoax, anyways.
SPEAKER_01The brushing your teeth before bed. Is that I've never done it. So, Steve, I want to answer your question. All right. I think if you had to rank engaging versus enjoyable, I think and yes, they can they can coincide and go together, but I think engagement's a little bit more important. You want to have your audience ready and willing to participate, to, to be engaged, to be present. Not everything can be enjoyable, can be fun necessarily. Yeah, but it could be the driest of all topics. But maybe you switch things up and you have a video, maybe you have a you pose a question and it goes to small group or a think pair share. Maybe you do a quick activity. That might not be very exciting for a lot of people, but engaging that is where I think people would agree with so because because there that you would you there's that fine line of of being subjective. What I think is exciting may not be very exciting to you. However, I think we'd we'd both agree on what engagement looks like.
SPEAKER_00That is perfect. Yes, I think you're absolutely right in that entertainment is very subject. Hell, um, tonight my wife is gonna watch Love Island. I can guarantee it because the newest season's on, and she is infatuated with it, and I can hear that little intro. I know what she's watching. That is entertaining to her. That is not to me. I cannot, I have to, I can't even be in the room. I'm like, this is so unbearable. I understand that people like it, it's it's garbage TV. It's uh uh God, there's a comedian that calls it the McDonald's of TV, right? Like it's junk food, and and that's fine, but that's entertaining for her, and so be it. Stuff that I watch, she doesn't find entertaining, and that's completely fine too. But I like that you said that we can all agree on what's engaging. Like, I I guess what comes to my mind is like a documentary, right? Like some documentaries are entertaining too. Like, oh, that's fascinating. A lot of times they hook you with engagement, they're teaching you something in a new way or showing you a new light. That's the way they rope you in, and you you actually learn something, or maybe learn something, right? Um, but we all know what that looks like. That god, that you said that perfectly. Like, I totally agree with that a thousand percent.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think too, it's it goes into at least for us as facilitators, Steve, of wanting to make sure that this training doesn't seem like it's lasting all day. So if you have a two or three hour training, the idea is that you have people engage, and so it only feels like you were together for 90 minutes versus 120. Even if you have the driest of information, if you can still make it seem that it wasn't that bad. I've had that, I had some, I had that customer service training. I know I've mentioned on here before. I did I did eight sessions of that last fall for uh one huge department, and we broke it up into chunks, and it was it was a two-hour training, and I had multiple people come up on different sessions. That actually wasn't that bad. And you know what? I'll take it. I'll take it because it was it was customer service 101, and these people a lot of these people had been there a while, but they needed a refresh, they needed a reboot, they needed a a different perspective on it of why it's important to go back to the basics at some point without a doubt, and a few people. I thought that was gonna be really rough and great. It so I felt that I made it engaging where that two hours didn't feel like two hours, it felt a little bit shorter. So, whether again, we talked about the you know, with the power point, the death by powerpoints, those rarely seem like things go fast. It seems like, oh my gosh, I've been here forever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna jump on that. Um because I think that's a very valid point. That when somebody does the death by powerpoint, you're right, I feel like it actually elongates the time. Like somebody feels like, oh gosh, like it's brutal. And I wonder if it does that because people look at progressions of things, right? Like, so they see slides click through, they see a progression, but if it is an endless slide cycle, that feels like forever. Like, whoa, what is happening? Um, and I I actually want to make a point that you said about uh you had a couple folks come to you and say, that wasn't that bad. Dude, cash those checks. Like that is that is gold. Like you rarely, and I say you, as in individuals out there, whether it's Patrick or myself or anybody out there that's listening that facilitates, educates, doesn't matter. You rarely, rarely will get somebody be like, that was amazing. I want to do it again. That does not happen. Maybe once in a blue moon, and they're usually drunk. But after your conversation with HR and you get that squared away, um, it's usually a uh that was alright. Done. I will take, and that's all right. That is fantastic. What you don't want to hear was this was a waste of my time. Oh, that one hurts. That one stings. Because what they're telling you is the whole time they were thinking of other things. And I just I usually revert back to with that. I usually say, Yep, same here.
SPEAKER_01Back at you, bro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And you know what I was thinking about? Absolutely nothing I was talking about. So now let me I'm gonna keep on posing these questions to you because I I love these answers. I wholeheartedly agree with them. Um, and one of the I love that I got him stealing that from you. The people know what engagement looks like. You're absolutely right. I am gonna get that tattooed on my back. Like that is so deadly true, man. Now, you have experience with younger learners because of your grade school years of teaching. Correct. And now you work with adults. Sometimes those two intersect, just saying. Absolutely. I'm kidding, that's not true. No, it is true. Um, it is true. Um do you notice like a any differentials or like is there something that you feel like has worked with both groups as an engagement piece or as an entertainment piece or a way to bridge that gap between the two? I'm because like when I taught, I was high school, so I they're they're a step away from quote unquote adulthood. Um, but you're dealing with what, eight, nine, ten-year-olds? It's a very different atmosphere. Yeah. So I'm really curious.
SPEAKER_01I guess to answer that, Steve, the similarities where are gonna be that it's important to kind of have different mediums, whether it's uh a discussion uh in person, right? I'm facilitating in front of the kids or in front of the adults, and maybe it's a showing of quick video, maybe having a PowerPoint. Uh we had the smart boards in the classrooms. Those were kind of a thing, I think, even of the past now, but the a lot of student schools had smart boards, that was a big thing for a while. Uh, it could be one-on-one small group type discussions with the kids or the adults. So I would say that as far as similarity goes. Now, working with students, there was kind of an unwritten rule that teachers had, and I think it actually it made sense, and maybe this isn't a thing anymore. I have been out of the classroom for eight or nine years now, but the general rule of thumb was that students should really only be expected to be engaged, so whether it means like sitting in one spot. So think of like kindergarten, like five, five or six years old, right around the uh uh at circle time, okay? They should be expected to be engaged or sitting still for up to their age, so six years old, sure, six minutes, eight-year-old, eight minutes at their desk, okay? And then if you the idea is that by that eight, nine, ten minutes, now you're starting to lose them because they're getting a little fidgety or they're getting lost on the the conversation. So I tried to model that as best as I could. Again, as you said, I was teaching third, fourth grade, so we're at the nine, 10-year-old level for the most part. And so, really, yeah, after 10 minutes, I might do a quick little intro lesson on write uh author's craft. Why is the author writing this story, this realistic fiction book that we're reading? Okay. And then, all right, we have a little circle time, we talked about it, and then now let's go back to our desks and work on this. And then I'm gonna pull in kids for small group reading. Oh, it's time to rotate to get our Chromebooks. So you're you're constantly trying to move around. Wow. With adults, that's harder to do, but at the same time, I don't necessarily think so because if now age-wise, no, I'm not gonna say, oh, adults should sit still for 60 minutes or 42 minutes. No, no, you still they it's it's similar with the with the age of uh the the numbers of like uh eight to ten minutes, but like you and I do, we throw in some questions, we get into breakout sessions, we get into activities of video, then the PowerPoint, and then rotate all that. So there is a lot of moving around.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's not so much again 50 minutes of me just talking straight, like, oh my god, I would be that would be horrible to have to listen to that. So kind of to your point, it's cool that there are those similarities uh with adults with uh with children, yeah, the same as far as attention goes and what makes we'll go back to it, what makes an engaging experience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I like that you mentioned this idea that um with adults, yes, you can't be like, okay, let's do circle time, and now we're gonna do like no, you're you're not doing that. I get that. Um, but for anybody out there listening, if you've ever gone to a presentation or a meeting or something like that, you'll notice that the meetings or those trainings that go rather fluidly, or at least don't feel like they're like nails on a chalkboard, are the ones where somebody doesn't just stand up in front of the group and talk the whole time. Like what they'll do, what you're kind of saying, Patrick, which I do the same thing, and we've had this conversation where you'll present on something, it's hey, so what do you all think? Like, can you think of an example? And you get people to start engaging back. It doesn't feel like much, but there is a dynamic shift there. There is an actual that is kind of the proverbial, I'm standing up and moving around now, kind of a thing, because you're engaging their mind a little bit, you're getting them to recall things, move them, uh, kind of just involving them with the topic in a way that really well, I guess engages them, right? That's what you're trying to do. You're trying to get them to think in the parameters of the topic that you are setting up for them. And with kids, it almost has to be a bit more blunt because they don't have the experience. And that's correct. If you ask any teacher, um, Patrick included, or whatever, the biggest difference between adult education and childhood education is experience. Adults have experience to build off of, where kids don't. So you need to be more direct with kids. If you've ever tried to be sarcastic with kids, you've learned this lesson. Like, because they don't have the cognition to typically understand sarcasm. They just don't. You make a comment, they take you at face value. You boy, I bet that hurt. Yes, and I mentioned that in a previous episode. Yes, where I am like a dummy, I'm sarcastic. And often when I'm sarcastic, it is self-deprecating. That's that's why we have a podcast called Grossly Competent, where we talk about how ugly we are for an hour. Like, come on. Um, but yes, my son, very young, very young, decided, oh well, if dad talks that way, I should too. But instead of it coming across as, oh, that's cute and that's funny, I was like, ooh, you sound like a dick. So whoopsie daisy. So I had to pull back from that. But adults have nuance, they can pull from experience and go, I know you're saying that, but all the logic in this room and the the context actually means you're saying it, you know, in a different light. So therefore, I know not to take you seriously on this. Um so in that I do agree with you. I I think that getting individuals engaged in a room or doing the um uh like the pairings or so like Socratic circles, if you will, like doing something to get them to adjust goes so far that it is crazy how powerfully impactful it is.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think the I I would I would be shocked if anyone in a training, it doesn't matter what the topic is, that didn't enjoy having a few minutes to talk about the topic in a group, whether it's with a partner or a group of four to five, and then having kind of a large group share out because one, they can learn from one another, but two, people like to be able to share their experiences, even if they're super introverted, they they can be the ones that talk in the small group and then say, I don't want to share. Okay, great. But yeah, it gives people an opportunity to validate their own experiences, and so I think that really goes a long way. So kind of going back, Steve, to this whole compliance thing we were talking about is yeah, how do you make that the most engaging? And I I don't know if I have the answer. Most of the the compliance training is virtual. Yeah, it's it's I think I think that's because people haven't figured out a way. Let's make it as painless as possible. So rather than sending someone to a training where a robot's gonna be up in front of the room for two hours, it gives them an opportunity to to click and slide through, watch a couple of uh videos, HIPAA videos, or whatever it is to talk about that and to learn about that, excuse me. And I think that's just that's probably the easiest mode or medium to get through that.
SPEAKER_00It's a it's a trade-off for convenience. Like we realistic I and I know I'm kind of interrupting you, I'm sorry, but I I just had to step that in there of I do feel as though there's a solution out there for it. Like, could organizations realistically provide compliance training in a way in a live in-person event that is engaging? Absolutely, they could. Would it be the like the most entertaining? No, not at all. However, especially as companies grow and get larger and geography plays an issue, like technology is there for a reason. And it is a it's it's important to be able to utilize that technology when it can provide a convenience. You know, I as a I'm gonna go back to disrupt a jar real quick. One of the individuals, hell, I'll make sure I I uh put them in the show notes. She talked about specifically, I'm paraphrasing the daylights out of it, but you you might remember this one where she talked about um flexibility in the workplace and how typically for like your white-collar jobs, it's a lot easier. Like me, I just said today, I'm gonna work from home. Are you cool with that? My manager's like, yeah, all good. We don't want to see your ugly face anyway. So I was those exact words too. It was it was actually a text, and it was it still haunts me, but I have that flexibility. Now I also understand that somebody that um a landscaper, for example, or like uh somebody that's like frontline employee, they don't have that luxury. And what her proposition was we have to figure out solutions to give them that flexibility, maybe allowing them to choose their workday, maybe they work from 7 to 11 and then two to six. Like, let that if does it fit their schedule? Does it fit the parameters? Does it give you the amount of time? We need to figure out these things. So in this case, as crummy as it. Sounds, we just got done saying nothing is better than in-person training in this situation. It's not a bad thing to have the big, bad, scary compliance training be in this because it allows you the freedom to do it when it feels good for you to do it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and kind of piggybacking on your point, I I like and I do recall that presentation from Disrupt HR. And I I like that there has to be that flexibility.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01But of let's say of days or hours or shifts or whatever that looks like, so they can they can get what they need to done, go to that appointment without having to take PTO or go to pick up their kids from school without having to use sick time or whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But also, too, though, it it it's the nature of the of the job itself. So for example, uh, if I'm a lifeguard uh for the county and I work at one of the parks, well you have to be at the pool to be the lifeguard. Of course you can't work from home. I want to work from home today. Yeah. Yeah. So I you know, it's I it that sounds so like, yeah, idiot, but like when we when I think what I think organizations to do when they're coming up with this, when they do get to that point of uh saying here, this is the flexibility, they almost have to stress that because you'd think like, oh, that goes without saying. Well, not for everybody, you know. So I just wanted to put that in there too. Yeah, of course. Not from your house.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And I think that's kind of what she was saying was, or at least part of it was this idea of no, we can't pull them out of the area where they work. Like so, the lifeguard is a great example of that. Their job is next to a pool. You can't really have them in an office or uh somewhere else, you can't set them in a new spot, but we can set it up that maybe they have a bit more flexibility with their hours. Yeah, that um I'm gonna work a 10-hour shift this day and then a six-hour shift this day, so I can make these appointments, or I can get home early to my kids, or whatever it is, right? That's but to your credit, you're right. It common sense is not common. Um, no, this was I think my biggest takeaway from this conversation, hands down, was your comment on engagement. I can't agree with that more. I know this is like the 50th time you're gonna edit this episode and be like, God, he said it so many times. But I guess I just want to keep on saying it to resonate this out to everybody that's listening. It's so absolutely true. No matter what it is you're doing, if you're giving a presentation to your department, you have a team meeting, or you are trying to facilitate a massive event, whatever it is, just understand what engagement means for that group. It does not need to be entertaining, you do not need to be a stand-up comedian, you don't need to like it's okay, just make it engaging, and there's tons of ways to do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. You know, I just uh I was just trying to be compliant.
SPEAKER_00You know, do you know who is always compliant, engaging, and entertaining?
SPEAKER_01Spinaruski.
SPEAKER_00Spinaruski it is indeed, folks. While Mr. Patrick fires up the wheel, a reminder for all of our listeners. Each episode we spin the spinneroski. It is a wheel of names that might belong to the woman who so generously shoved Mr. Patrick and I into the ugly club all those years ago. And the goal of the spinnerouski is that we will eventually land on her name by the hope of the universe and thank her properly. Before we spin, do you wanna pick a name out of the ether and just see if perhaps we land on it?
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna go with Sarah?
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna go with Bethany.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Um, folks, if you're new to this, the reason why I'm saying that is the spinnerouski has this weird, and I mean weird thing, where Patrick and I will say something or a previous episode it said, and then it appears on the spinnerouski as our name. So I'm curious to see if the spinneruski's listening to us. So with that, all right, Patrick. Spin that rooski!
SPEAKER_01Round and round she goes.
SPEAKER_00Around the world, around the world. That was Daft Punk, right? Yeah. I think so. Aria. That is not what I thought it was gonna be. Aria. And my Alexa just said yes.
SPEAKER_01I said Aria.
SPEAKER_00Gosh, Alexa! You attention seeker. Anyway. Or hey, hey, hey now, it's a living. Aria, thank you so much. I hope it was you. I hope you were the one that graced Mr. Patrick and I and shoved us so vigorously into the Ugly Club all those years ago. We appreciate you. You are fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Aria, that's a great name. It really is. I really hope it was you, too. I just feel like that would be a good connection.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I really enjoy that one. Big fan.
SPEAKER_01Steve, you want to do some shout-outs?
SPEAKER_00No. Oh, okay. Yeah, fine.
SPEAKER_01You start us off. You start us off. Okay, okay. Uh I'm gonna keep it quick. I would like to shout out my landlord for not raising my rent for the upcoming year. That was a pleasant surprise.
SPEAKER_00Uh, not all heroes wear capes.
SPEAKER_01I know, right? Thank you. Good. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good for you, landlord. If you I if you're one of our many, many, many listeners. Um, hey, Patrick Ayleshire thanks you. That's awesome. Yes, can you fix the potholes on the driveway? Thank you. Whoa. I wonder how he's gonna fix those potholes. It's not with your raised rent. So okay, I messed that up. Yeah. JK, JK. Um, I know I said this earlier, um, but I I think it bears repeating. And I would like to give a shout out to the production crew of Disrupt HR Milwaukee. They absolutely crushed it. They did a fantastic job with the videos. Um, even if you don't watch mine, I do not care. I think you owe it to the other presenters to watch theirs. They did a fantastic job. Um, if I ever find out the name of the production company, I will give them their due process and say thank you. But for right now, this is gonna have to do.
SPEAKER_01I second that. That was uh I I highly recommend watching those presentations, including Steve's. They were all fantastic, and it was a great group of speakers and all such a variety of topics. And and like you said, Steve, we're not asking you to uh sit through a 30-40-minute presentation. These are five-minute hits, like quick, you know, you can break them up, watch it, watch a couple here, come back, watch them later. It's uh and then all again, all different topics, which was which is awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01All right.
SPEAKER_00Oh, no, um one more thing before we before we run. Before we run. Okay. Um, I know we said this earlier, but folks, we mean it. Send your submissions for our QA episode. You can either message us on Instagram at grossly competent or email us at grosslycompetent at gmail.com. And if you're from Knowledge City, don't bother.
SPEAKER_01Or your name is Simon.
SPEAKER_00Whoa, whoa, oh. I'm so sorry. I know this is a last second thing. Any updates on your LinkedIn message?
SPEAKER_01I've not heard anything. No, it's uh it's gone quiet.
SPEAKER_00I fe I don't want to pat myself in the back too hard, but I feel like my Uno reverse card's working.
SPEAKER_01I it's 100% right now. So I'm I'm looking forward to to adding it to trying it again sometime.
SPEAKER_00Yes. All right, let's end on a high note, man. Folks, that's it for this episode. You all rock. We appreciate it, we love you. Thanks again, and we will see you next time.
SPEAKER_01Ugly Ugly Ah Ugly Ugly Owl.
SPEAKER_00That's good. Get that bass going.
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