Networking: Your New Superpower!

In this episode of Grossly Competent, hosts Steve and Patrick dive into a subject so scary, so utterly revolting, that chills will run down your spine!

We're talking everyone's favorite corporate buzzword: Networking.

The boys get down to the nitty gritty and chat about the true power of absolute, genuine networking and that it's so much more than collecting business cards like Patrick Bateman at a Pokemon convention. Whether you're an extrovert or introvert, Steve and Patrick share tips on becoming more effective with meeting people in your field and the doors it can open.

Whether it's to see if Steve screws up the intro, to discover who Patrick bribed to be our sponsor of the week, or hear the uncanny connections our Spinarooski provides, there's a little something for everyone.

And of course, some links for you to enjoy:

• 'My God, it even has a watermark.'
• Forbes: The Power of Networking
• The Spinarooski is alive...

Come for the chat, stay for the laughs, we're Grossly Competent.

Grow Potential With Humata Consulting
Empowering Company Success through Customized Learning and Development Solutions

Hang out with Zero Proof Pass
Mindful Drinking Starts Here - Hang out without the Hangover.

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Transcript

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Hello and welcome to Grossly Competent, the learning, development, and adulting podcast. It doesn't claim to be pretty no, but we will happily pretend to be slightly competent. I'm your host, Steve Council, and I'm joined by my co-host, the general of facial disarray, Mr. Patrick Ailshire. I salute you, good sir. You always know Steve is about to say something important because he leans forward and immediately disappoints everyone. That was a good one. Oh that was game. I was tempted to not go with that one, but I'm like, I I think I have to. Whoa. All right, um, folks, uh if I sound like this for the rest of the pod, it's because I am leaning as far back. No, I'm not gonna do that to you. It's all good. Lean back. Now you now you you have done psychic damage to me because now every time I lean in, I'm gonna be like, let me just go ahead and disappoint. Whoa. Well, I just thought we would have some issues trying to top last week, anyways. So I mean, I'm surprised you're actually we're we're here. This is what we call a sophomore slump. Exactly. It's gonna last about 13 episodes. No, no, at least 20. Anyway, folks, we've got uh we've got things to get into this week. But first, Mr. Patrick Listener Land demands to know who is our sponsor of the week. Today's episode is sponsored by drinking coffee to feel normal. Not energized, not productive, just baseline human. Coffee, medically replacing hope since adulthood began. Wow. Uh thanks, big drinking coffee to feel normal. Uh, yes, you are absolutely correct. I'm gonna butcher this. I recently saw a sign in a friend of mine in her office, and it says something like caffeine, because I don't always have this cheery disposition. And I was like, it's I I'm butchering it, but it was something along the lines. I'm like, Yeah, you're not wrong. Like, boy, you are I I know you're a coffee connoisseur, like you you like to do your your coffee chats and whatnot. Do you have that? Like where you wake up in the morning and you feel like you just you need that cup to start the day. I actually don't, and I'm I'm glad I I don't. Um on a typical work day, I'm up between six and seven, and I actually don't have a cup of coffee until about nine o'clock. Okay. So I I get up, kind of uh just kind of get my day going, take the dog for a walk, and then I have I have just had this like regiment for just so many years where I have a I have my analogy bottle of water, 32 ounces, and I will drink one of those the whole thing first. So 32 ounces of water before I even have coffee, just to kind of set, I guess. And so yeah, that's uh it's and I don't think I drink enough of it. I mean, I still have a couple, a couple cups, we'll say, per day. Maybe weekends might go a little crazy and have a few more. Yeah, but I uh I never have got to the point where I'm like first thing, you know, my bedside, you know, nightstand is the coffee pot. You're Michael Scott and you just you just want the what is his thing? That's the George Foreman, right? Yes, he uh he just loves the waking up to the smell of of bacon, yeah. But then he burns his foot himself, yeah. So stupid. No, I uh I'm with you, Patrick, that um it is not the first thing I go to in the morning. Um I think typically yeah, I'm usually up for two, three hours before I will have one. The weekend is a bit different because I kind of have that there's a bit of a ritual um that I will do where I will have my cup of coffee if I can. Like if I have other things going on, I get it. But I'll have my cup of coffee and I like to do my little puzzles, my little brain games, and do those, and then after that, it's like, all right, now what do we need to do? Let's let's get on with our day and yeah, rock it forward. Exactly. And I think some of these weekends is kind of nice sometimes. Uh yeah. A little early afternoon, a little pick-me-up or whatever, depending on what's going on. So that's awesome. I was just talking to my sister over the weekend, and we were talking about uh it was a family party, and so it was like late afternoon on Saturday, and someone's coming around with coffee, and I'm like, oh man, like I can't do that anymore. I used to be able to drink coffee, like it's my understanding is that like coffee, the caffeine's got like a six-hour shelf life, like half half calf, right? Like so, if you have if you have coffee at three o'clock at nine o'clock, you still have like half the caffeine in your system, is my understanding of that. Yeah, I I think even a few years ago, like I could have coffee five, six o'clock. Now, I'd still fall asleep okay, but what I'm noticing within the last year, if I have it too late, it's not the falling asleep part, it's just randomly waking up at like two in the morning and be like Oh, look at that. I guess I'm awake now. Yeah, so I I really try to avoid anything past like I'd say like two o'clock. Like if I finish my if I can finish my cup by well, if I finish it by one noon or one, great. But if uh like weekends, I can still do like two or three and be okay. But anything after that, no things. Yeah, yeah. There's been a couple times I've dabbled in the a later in the day cup of coffee, and yeah, it usually does not end very well for me. Well, I think about like the the holidays too, where it feels like uh Thanksgiving or Christmas, whatever, and dad's walking around, hey, coffee, coffee, and I'll usually do it. Like, I don't know if it's so the exhaustion from the holidays that I don't prefer it being I still sleep fine the next day, but uh yeah, on a on a normal weekend, like oof, I'd love to have it, but just do you ever rock decaf or no? What is that? I've I've never done I don't touch stuff. I've had it at on accident? Yeah, I've had it. Not out of not on purpose, but no. Yeah, I know. I just I mean I I don't the thing is it's like I don't you drink sometimes people like oh I drink coffee to the taste, but like decaf is terrible. Yes, you know, unless you're getting maybe a I don't know, a good brand, but who knows? I don't know. I I've I've never have. Never have and I never will. Yeah, that's it. That's all I've got. Well, uh what's going on, man? It's uh it's it's been a minute, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's been a minute. So what's what's going on with you? I've fun story to share. Um I I took your advice from a couple episodes ago and I did a little I apologize in advance. I assume it ended poorly. Whatever the advice was. No, no, I'm I'm joking. I uh I'm sorry. I what advice of mine did you follow so I can track that? I talked a I I chatted uh I had a little situation with some uh pitch slapping. Uh I had reverse the reverse Uno game. Oh my god, you did it? I had someone reach out to me. Uh we are a first connection, and this is recent. This must have been within the last we'll say like four or five days on LinkedIn. Because I don't recognize this person other than that we connected. Oh, so you did connect with them. Okay. I did connect with them. And wow. So I connected with them first. Yeah. And it might have been like one commonality between us. Okay, cool. Sure. All right. Don't know who you are, but I'm happy to connect, right? So I get a message this morning, and it said, hi Patrick. Happy happy to connect. In case this is relevant, we built a leadership intelligence platform that turns a 10-minute online assessment into a fully interactive behavior profile. Oh my god. Leaders can so they're doing their pitch, okay? Leaders can explore their team members through familiar lenses, disk, big five traits, yada yada, and ask any complex questions like how should I manage this person under pressure? And then they ended with worth a short walkthrough. So I wrote back a few hours later. Oh, they just that was the way they ended it. Worth a worth a short walkthrough. Like a like it was a question? Yeah. So they had Oh, I can't I'm now I'm wow, my brain's like they're saying, like, is that worth a short walkthrough? Like that. Yes. This 10-minute online assessment, essentially. Got it. Okay. Sorry. So I I wrote, I'm sure leaders sometimes get stressed out having to manage all the different team members while under pressure, because that's what she kind of had mentioned. And I said, Fortunately, Zero Proof Pass has created a non-alcoholic passport program in the Milwaukee area so those leaders can go out during the workday and have an NA beverage without the buzz. No need to get HR involved. Happy to share more. And I said, happy to share more. So a few hours later, I get a response back. They responded. Yes, and this is where it gets it got weird. Um, there was a couple typos, but it said, that is that is strong plan, comma. It always works well for, it'd be from or for uh for my experience. Thank you for sharing. So let me say it again. That is strong plan. It always works well for my experience, and then two two parentheses, just thank you for sharing. Like they double chinned the uh the end of the uh sentence. Yeah. Okay. Um were there any mistakes like that in the first message? No. Not no. Okay, that's really weird. There was the so there is, I know now this is a c this is a hot button topic in the in the artificial intelligence space, but the the uh you're gonna help me out here, Steve, but that the little dash, the M M dash, M dash, there are a couple of those. Okay. There's one specifically, and then in her first message, there it there's a quick little dash, which I use that quick little dash, but then there is a longer M-dash at the end of that first paragraph. Yeah. I don't know. I hate that being like a marker of using AI. I know. There I don't know. So like I use one all I love using m-dashes. Like I really do. I do that in tech, I do that in texting. Yes! Same! I'm just quick pause. Yes! But now I don't if I'm doing one dash, that's not the M-dash is a longer one. I don't even know how to do that on the keyboard. Is that just a picture of them in a row? No, it's um control, delete, whatever. Yeah, yeah, it's some, yeah. Yeah. Right shift, left shift, A B start. Oh. Up down, left, right, R1, 2, 1. How are we gonna get Sega? How are we gonna get the unlimited lives? Up, down, left, right, A B, A, B, A, B, A. Is that Sega? I I do always remember for uh Teenage Mute Ninja Turtles 2 the arcade game. Uh the code was Dollard. Down up left left, a right, down. Wow, that's impressive. Thank you. Thank you. Um, thank you. Um what was the name of the magazine? The Nintendo Gamer or whatever the heck it was called. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. So uh thank you very much. I can't remember your magazine, but I bet it was a good one. Uh as a sponsor. Yeah. I hope so. Um I can't help but feel like that person's not really who they say they are. Well, can I share a last response that I just sent in a little bit ago? Oh, so you responded back to one more odd okay fireway. What'd you do? I said, of course, I love apple picking at the beach during cloudy weather. Reminds me of B2B sales every time. See, you just responded with gibberish. Yeah. I can't wait when I log in tomorrow to see what happens. I hope. Ooh, I hope they respond. Uh, this sounds like a job for Instagram. We might have to post this on there. Because uh, I the first sounds too polished, like it sounds like okay, and that's fine if you copy paste, like you're sending out to many people. I understand that. Fine, whatever, dude. Do I like it? No, but I get people do that fine. But then the secondary response is clearly this is of no offense, but to me, that sounds like broken English. Like it sounds like somebody that English is a second language, fine, but then it also just doesn't make any contextual sense, right? Wow, yeah. Ooh, keep us updated. I need to know what happened, what transpires. Yes, um, that is so awesome. I can't believe you took my advice. Oh, that just warms my heart. I have not had a single response anytime I've done it. Oh, they don't respond, they're like, well, scratch this guy. I'm like, well, whatever. I don't really care. And uh, for folks, if you haven't checked it out already, I did post on our Instagram what it looks like when I did this, and I was very good. I blocked out names, and I even gave the guy a fun little new face. It may have a red nose and some curly yellow hair, and he might look like a clown because he is, let's just be honest, right? So oh, that's awesome, man. Wow, okay, plot thickens. We need to stay tuned. That's awesome. Um, well, I uh I'm not that exciting. I don't I nobody loved me that much over the weekend to to give me that kind of stuff. Um, it was Memorial Day, right? Like three-day weekend, woo-woo, at least for some folks out there, I'm hoping, right? Um, it is the unofficial start of summer. And I was curious, Mr. Patrick, what are your go-to activities or events that you either like to get started with the Memorial Day weekend? What do you like to continue? Or what do you look forward to as summer starts to kick in? You know, it is the unofficial start of summer, which is it's we have to enjoy that here in the Midwest because summer is so short otherwise. So you know, it's a there's a lot of fun to be had over the next 100 days. I like to start things off with my apartment pool opening. Oh, cool. Uh at the complex here, we have a we have a huge uh outdoor pool for all gosh stuff. There's it's a huge complex. There's probably six, seven hundred units, so it's a very large, holy, very large uh few buildings, and they typically open at Moral Day weekend. And so they open it officially on and we have to have it's the city mandates lifeguards, so we do have a lifeguard on staff, and the pool opened on Friday. And if you recall, the weather on Friday was a balmy 53 degrees here in Milwaukee. Oh, it was cold by you? It was cold on Friday. It was uh yep, low 50s, yeah. At least 10 in the morning it was. Oh, at 10 in the morning, I was just like, gosh, it was beautiful all weekend, but okay, okay. And so the my tradition the last few years has been to jump in the pool on day one. Nice my lunch break, I I went out there, and fortunately the pool is heated. So that's nice. The jumping in wasn't a big deal, it was just getting out was a little cold. Oh god. Yeah, that's rough. Um, but aside from that little fun thing I like to do, I love seeing all the restaurants and the bars start to put out their patio furniture. Usually you know, sometime in May when the weather gets nicer, and you can you can go see people eating their meals or getting drinks outside on the weekends or after work. It's kind of cool. Yep. As far as events, there's just so many I could list off, but I really love seeing the farmers market start to pop up on the weekends. And um, my goal this summer is to get out to a few more than I normally do. I usually try to kind of stick around the Milwaukee area, but I'd love to venture out a little bit and go to some ones I haven't yet. So very cool. Um, yeah, I do love me a farmer's market, I won't lie. So uh although I I probably start a little earlier than this weekend, but we could go ahead and say that the Memorial Day weekend is when we start because it is finally starting to get nicer out. But uh, what do I start? Um, I start pretending like I know how to landscape. I that's what I pretend. Um, I spent my weekend ripping up my mulch beds because they were disgusting, and my kids did help, which was really, really nice of them. Yep. And then adding flowers and stuff so my house doesn't look like it's out of a horror film. So that's cool. Yup. Um what do I continue? I continue with lots and lots of grilling. I love grilling. So it's like easily minimum four times a week. I will grill. Oh, yeah. Okay. I love grilling. Um, do you wear a mask when you grill, or does that just the fumes sometimes help with the moisture? Um, well, sometimes, but I have had it where it gets really hot and then the latex just adheres to my face, and then I just have to keep it on, and then I have to put a new mask over that one. It's just it's like mask seption. So no, and because uh this specific year for my birthday, I was gifted an apron. I I need I need to keep my clothes clean. Um and I especially really like it because it says on there, and I quote, um, I make onions cry. So I uh I love that. I was like a Chuck Norris. I don't know. I don't know. I I am not Chuck Norris, but um I make onions cry, and I thought that was just delightful, and it was a gift from my kiddos, so of course I'm gonna wear the daylights out of that. Oh and then what's something I look forward to? I mentioned the uh farmers markets. I agree with you, man. I do need to do better about like venturing out to more of them. I kind of just like stick to my one or two that I really like, but I think jumping out more would be cool. Um, and festivals. This is festival season. There's always like churches all over the place have these different festivals, or there's um like firemen clubs and and whatnot, like they'll have their festivals. Totally worth going to those, in my opinion. It's for a good cause. What the heck? Like, just have fun with it. And plus, they usually have like stupidly good food and yes, stuff for the kids and everything else. So it's it's just like an entire fun day of whatever. So I like that. I enjoy that, and like you said, man, we have a limited number of days where it is nice. So my god am I going to take advantage. Yes. Definitely have to. Yeah, man, right? So um I can we get into our topic? Are you cool with that? Sure. Or did you have anything else you wanted to share? No, let's do it. Okay. Okay. I don't know. You had hesitation. That's my face. It's just a little bit. Oh, okay. Okay. That's fine. Um this actually interestingly ties in with what you brought up just earlier. With you know, somebody connected with you, and then they just pitch slap, and you're like, dude, come on, what the hell, right? And you know what? At this point, I don't care. Apple podcasts, go ahead. Just just Marcus with an E. That's fine with me. Um, but no, um I can't remember where I was. This was a couple weeks ago, two or three weeks ago, something like that. I'm sorry, I really can't remember where I was, but I was talking to some like a group of folks, and uh somehow networking came up, and I noticeably saw one of the people in this group just do like the like shake their head, and all of their buddies kind of laughed, and I was like, Oh, I assume you you hate that word. He's like, Yeah, it's such a buzzword. I'm like, Yeah, you're I get it, like, but it's legit. And I think just because we've been talking about LinkedIn and people being authentic and all this kind of stuff, I just thought it would be a good opportunity for us to take that step backwards and actually talk about true networking. Like, what does that look like? And folks, if you're like that guy that shook his head at me, was like, oh, I hate that word. Before you turn off this episode or just like shut us down, please just do me a favor, just hear me out. Think of a word or a phrase that to you describes meeting like-minded people in a similar pro professional space. Like, just whatever that is, I don't care what that phrase is to you. Pretend that's what Patrick and I say this entire episode. Like that, just use your cognitive capabilities to say that must be what you are saying. Because I I think that there's real value in having this kind of a discussion. Sure. And uh, if you are on your way out, make sure to give us a five-star review. I was gonna ask uh when you initially started talking about this, Steve, about how this crossed your noggin. I thought maybe you had done some sort of uh deep dive on Reddit, or perhaps you were so inspired by all the networking on LinkedIn, but no, um I it really was one of those things that I feel like it has consistently come up. And in some of these conversations I've had with people, like um it's cats out of the bag, one of our previous guests that we have had on the show, Lynnelle Meath, I now work with her, and that was dare I say, exclusively due to networking. Like, so like I've had conversations with her and um and just some other folks, and it just sounds like I feel like I'm a broken record sometimes where I'm I'm kind of spouting this, like it's it's a good thing, it's not supposed to be a negative, it's a really powerful tool. And I I feel like people get hung up on that corporate buzzword speak of oh, it's networking, like you're you're collecting business cards like Patrick Bateman and American Psycho. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like there's there's good networking, and then there's also garbage networking, where it's like you trade it like Pokemon cards, like, dude, no, this is like these are all real people. Let's let's be realistic about this. And I'm hoping that by the end of this episode I'm able to convey what I genuinely feel is like the the super secret power of actual wholehearted networking. It's to add to that too, it's it is a very important part of connecting with others, kind of like you were referring to the the Pokemon cards, uh, comparing their like this is not just uh here's my business card, here's a business card, and let's be friends. Like it's yes, you know, call it what you will, networking or whatever you want to call it. But it's it's really for anyone to be able to say, Hey, I've got these skills and I am interested in this type of job. I'd love for you to remember me in some way, shape, or form. So I think that that really can go a long way. And whether that is you have a job in a career that you like and you just want to meet more people in that space, which can be good just for just for connections, whether it's grabbing coffee or just uh shooting the shit, whatever it is. Yeah, or it could be that you are it you are open to work and you are looking for a job and you want to just get some more acquaintances. Yeah. So uh and also which I'll get into uh maybe a little bit later, of as far as even being a business owner, and so aside from just like the day-to-day stuff, I uh of a full-time job, looking at the networking that I've been able to do the last nine months in just Milwaukee here to help how can I expand this business and who can I who do I need to know? Who should I talk to? How can we make this work to collaborate together? Yeah. Something you just said earlier, and actually I really want to hear about that side of it, um, because I I find that extremely fascinating because you really have just like put that into high drive, and I'm curious like how that all went, but something you just said when you were talking about why somebody might want to network, and I believe you mentioned like you might be open to work. So I know I sound like this tried and true broken record of like networking is blah blah blah blah blah. Like you, I was not always like that. Like, I thought the same thing as that guy shaking his head, like, oh my god, it's so lame. Like, I thought it was just corporate buzz speak, it's liquid garbage, I want nothing to do with it. Well, what changed my mind was being part of a mass corporate layoff. And I hate to say it, but the whole phrase of it's not what you know, it's who you know. Um, that statement's true. Like, there is truth to that statement. However, what I have learned through networking is it's only half the truth. And I'm gonna try to explain myself a little bit. So if I get into the weeds, pull me out, man. Like, just give me the shepherds, okay? Like networking is what grants you the audience to demonstrate your skills rather than relying on your skills to give you the audience, which is what most people do. I put it on my resume, I have all these classes and certifications. I'm going to insert my resume and I'm gonna be one of 500 applicants in the first day. Or if you actually start networking, getting to know people and they get to know you, you get pushed to the front of that line because now you have authentic individuals in those industries that can vouch for you, grant you that audience, so then you can demonstrate your skills. I think too, it can it can help out kind of on a side note, too, of future state as far as using um using that leverage of those relationships for other career opportunities. Absolutely. I mentioned it on here before, but it was the uh using someone as a as a uh referral resource, what's the word I'm looking for? Referral. Yeah, reference. Yeah, reference, thank you. And that has happened through networking, through the community. We talked about this before, the Association of Talent Development. When I was part of that, I was on the board of directors, and someone else that was on the board ended up being a reference for me. And that I think really helped push me over the edge from you know they they liked what they had to hear, but they wanted to just to confirm like, is this a stand-up guy? How is his work ethic? And those connections really helped that. So it was the effort that I put in. It wasn't just that I I gained a lot of friendships on on uh the board of directors, and actually I just uh shout out to Sue Davies. I just had went and had coffee with her last week, and we were just chit-chatted up, so got to rehash some of our board stories uh from the days on the board, and we also talked a little bit about Disrupt HR. Wait, was she the one that you introduced me to? Correct. Oh Sue, you are delightful. You are no, she was she was so nice, so nice. Um, sorry, I wasn't trying to interrupt. We had a good chat about uh about disrupt HR, but again, just kind of goes back to the whole networking thing and how those connections can really come into play. So I'm so glad. I love this is what I love, you guys. Like, I love this so much because as Patrick and I kind of go back and forth, I'll kind of like I feel I don't know if you get this, but I'm like, ooh, I have an idea. Like you spark like different ideas, just like we just are constantly bouncing these things off of one another. I love that you mentioned this like um comment about uh that Sue was able to help you with this referral, right? And uh correct, or did I misread? So it was it was another person on the board that was my reference, but oh, I'm sorry. It was just uh that going back to the board and having knowing Sue on there was really helpful with just some of these conversations about work life and got it in those connections as well. Yeah, oh, and my apologies, but still my point will remain. So, regardless of the fact you had a referral because of networking, like you had this, you had an individual willing to vouch for you. And I think maybe my previous statement on the um networking grants you the audience to demonstrate your skemonstrate your skills, maybe is a bit too sterile because networking also shows off who you are as a cultural fit for an organization, too. And brother, I think you know just as much as anyone else, like somebody can look like gold on a resume, and then you get them in the door, and they're a nightmare, or they are just full of embellishments. You're like, hmm, that's not true. Like, boy, did I get sold a big old bill of goods, like but having somebody willingly vouch for you, put their name on the line alongside yours, gives you a ton of weight, and I think having that networking really, really helps big time. Yeah, uh, yeah. When you just when you said that about like, oh, they just kind of want to know what kind of guy you are, it's like, oh my gosh, yes, they they want to know what kind of an individual you are. Are you uh are you easy to get along with? Like, I hate to say it, folks, but that's a real make or break piece in certain industries. If you're in sales and you're tough to get along with, ouch. Or team team dynamics and yeah, you know, as far as like, are you are the is this person not only going to get along well with the other team members, but what's their work like? What's their you know, what's their uh their ability to stay focused and get the job done. So I think that's completely valid. Now, do you what about the people, Steve, that say, like, oh, I'm I'm a little worried, I'm a little scared. It's networking can kind of be. I'm not totally sure if it's for me. I feel like the people that say that are often introverts. And I totally get that. Like it that's fine. I understand that not everybody is like Patrick and I, like, oh I'll talk to people. Like, yeah, let's do a coffee chat. I totally get that. I really, really do. Um, but it does not need to be as scary and daunting as you think. Like, it's not this I'm trading business cards with people or anything like that. Just I I really this is the inf this is the advice, excuse me, I was to say the information. This is the advice that I give people when they ask me about like what I like about networking and why do I think it's beneficial and how do they do it? And the easiest answer is be interested in the person you're speaking to. Like it is weird as that is, yeah, but it really well spoiler alert, I didn't come up with that. That's Dale Carnegie. Um, how to win friends and influence people. His whole book is about like people really like it when they feel important. And I know that sounds manipulative, but think of you with your friends, right? Like, if you're talking to your friends about something that really interests them, are you doing it to influence them? No, you're doing it because you genuinely care about that person, you're interested in them. Well, this is just a person that hasn't become your friend yet, and you're giving them the opportunity to learn a little bit about them, and maybe, just maybe, you learn something from them, like, oh, you're doing this at work. Hmm, I have a similar situation. I wonder if that will help. And it can just be something as small as that, like that outside perspective of you can't see the forest from the trees, and you apply it, and then sure enough, oh my gosh, it worked, or oh, that didn't work, that that stunk. Then you can have that conversation of, like, yeah, dude, I tried that and that sucked. Like, whatever, it's fine. But absolutely, if you don't at least try to give that chance, you're never gonna achieve. You have to sometimes just take that scary first step. And even if it's you go to a conference, if you target one person, the person that's right next to you that you sit next to, some random person, just hey, how's it going? My name's this. What do you do? Strike up that simple conversation, just start with one. And if it seems like that wasn't so bad, well, then aim for two. And if that's not so bad, then aim for three. But be genuine because people can tell when you're not. Yes. It's basically like trying to sell yourself, uh, letting others know you're worthy of whatever it is you're going after. I mean, the job, the career, the industry, yeah, friendships, social group, whatever. Uh, you know, to your point about wanting to talk about yourselves and interests of others, uh it's very true. I mean, the studies show that as you're aware, we should be listening like 70% of the time. That's kind of what they think, but rather listening versus just talking. However, studies show that we spend about 45% of our time listening, meaning that 55% of the time we're busy talking. Really, so I think it's yes, it's important to go approach people, but introduce yourself, talk about what you're interested in, why you're there, and then give that other person maybe that's the foot in the door that you need that say, Oh, that's that's great. I actually was a former teacher as well. I got into LD, or here's how I did it. You're gonna learn a lot from being that listener versus just the talker, and also the habit that I know I brought up on here before, it's a habit everyone is guilty of at some point in their life. Try not to just respond, come up with that response, right? You're responding just to to you know, say to try to top what they're saying. Okay, we all do. You're not quite you maybe hear them, but you're not fully listening to what they're saying because they might have something really insightful to share. Yeah. And then you walk away from that conversation, you're like, oh, I know they told me there was a really good technique they used, and I totally wasn't listening because I was thinking about some funny thing happened. Yeah. To share that too. Now, interestingly, of course, we're a learning and development podcast, right? Like, so we talk a lot about learning and development. And I do feel like this industry, and heck, you know what, I'll throw HR out there because disrupt HR completely changed my opinion in that people out there are willing to hear different ideas. And in learning and development, I mean, learning is in the damn title, right? Like, so we kind of have this preconceived setup of like, I want to learn cool stuff too. What what cool things are you doing? Like it's nice to have that, and I do I do also feel like it's important to have that authenticity, and I I know I'm a broken record when I say that because people can tell when you're not being authentic, and I think listening, like you're saying, goes so far, and please, for listeners out there, do me the favor and go ahead and test this theory. But the next time you have a conversation with somebody and you feel like I don't think they were listening to me at all, just try to remember how that feels. And then when you have another conversation with somebody and they recall things about you, like, hey, by the way, last week, um, your daughter was sick, how's she doing? You tell me right now you're not like ears perk up, like Yeah, you remembered that? Wow, like how kind of you. Even if they're saying it just to be a good person, just like, hey, how are things going? Even though in the back of the head they're like, I don't really care, but I'm just saying it to be nice. It's still a very thoughtful thing. And the fact that they took the mental brain power to remember that about you should say something about that individual's character. And it's that's authentic, that's not fabricated, that's that's true, that's a true individual coming forward to the table. So you're saying network is kind of similar to just gaining a friend or to trying to just get to know someone, whether it's uh a new friend or or dating experiences, you're genuinely interested in not just saying I mean, the one thing I always laugh at is this is just a common thing that happens is you see someone maybe in in passing, hey, how's it going? How are you? Those are like just the simple pleasantries. It's just like I don't know how you the only example I can truly think of where I thought this was the best response was many, many years ago. We'll say 15, 20 years ago, I was at, I might even share this on here, I don't know, but I was at the I was having a rough day, and I was at maybe Target or the grocery store, and the checkout person was like, Hey, how's it going? And I maybe I looked a little disheveled or whatever, but I said, Oh, do you really want to know? And they responded, Nope, just a courtesy. And and that made me smile, and I needed that because I know I was having a bad day. I don't remember what it was, but it was it was a rough day, and I was like, Oh, I appreciate the honesty. Yeah, but anyway, it's going kind of going not uh on that tangent too long, but really when when you are when someone is generally asking about your weekend or your family or friends, and then they're able to recall that later. I think that just being a good person, being a good friend, colleague, yeah, coworker, however you want to, however you want to call it, because that's just you you know that you maybe aren't always gonna be coworkers with them, and maybe it turns into some sort of friendship, which uh networking for me has helped me out in many ways of not only getting a job, uh, but also gaining a friendship out of it. So it's yeah, it's cool. Yeah, yeah. It is absolutely the truth. Uh, I mentioned earlier about um being part of a massive corporate layoff, and maybe we have to do a uh no, we've never talked about like layoffs or anything, have we? No. God, I don't know. I I can't remember, but anyway, it sucks. That's the shortest answer. It sucks, like it is not a fun experience, and during that time, I had somebody that I had worked with, my god, like six years prior. She reached out to me out of the blue, like on LinkedIn, was like, Hey, saw. That this happened. I'm really sorry. She was like the greatest cheerleader on the planet. Like, she would randomly send me texts like this month is your month. You've got this. Um, like she would like July was like job July or something like that. Like, she would like have these fun little ways because yeah, maybe we have to have its own episode on this, but like it is, it it is a mentally and physically draining experience. Like it sucks, but what I found to be the way out of it was honest to god, networking, like just getting out, meeting people. I met people for coffee. Um, I think I met somebody for lunch once, and just chatting them up. And I didn't expect anything out of it. I wasn't like, oh, if I do this, they're gonna give me a job. No, it was oh, hey, I I'll remember this. And then sure enough, a couple years down the road, and yeah, I got a job and everything else, but I would still maintain connections with them. I helped uh let me see when it's here, somebody from that time, it was like two years later. I helped them figure out which learning management system they wanted to get by giving them my opinion, and then there was another person who they lost, like they were part of a layoff. So I was helping them trying to find a position. Like you just that's the thing of networking, just like you would do for your friends. That's really what I kind of look at as like they are friendships, right? Like they're just professional friendships that start off professional and then maybe they migrate into just full-on professional territory. There are people that I started with networking that I would now consider friends, like I would have come on over, let's hang out. Like those are friends, and that's because they grew into that position. So, yeah, to your original question of it's not that different, you're absolutely right. It's the same damn thing, like it absolutely is. That's you know, a brush a breath of fresh air, Steve. You know, the way you do networking is the absolute opposite of how people network on LinkedIn, and that's fantastic. At least in my inbox, that's how networking. I I don't know. I and I think genuinely, I I think that's what irritates me about LinkedIn is because that's really what the platform was all about, right? It's the professionals' network, right? Like social network, excuse me. Like that was the whole premise. And now it's just this cesspool of influencers and who can I try to sell? And it's like, oh man, like it's so exhausting. But if you can find those diamonds in the rough, my god, it's so worth it. Actually, I I have a kind of a fun story, you know. Maybe this will be the way I round things out so I can get off my soapbox. I mentioned um once for the third or fourth time now, this whole corporate layoff thing, right? Yeah. And one of the people that I worked with who was on my team, who had been laid off with me, my I add, um, was like, hey, let me let me introduce you to a friend of mine. And I was like, Oh, okay, cool, sure. So he introduced me to this woman. Her name is Jess. Um, I've actually talked to her. I want her on the show. She's amazing. And we had a really nice conversation, and she actually had a position open, it just didn't work out. Not a big deal. They got somebody else in that position. They're amazing. This was four or five years ago, whatever heck, right? But we've always maintained like a good relationship. Like, I'll send her a random meme or something stupid, right? Fast forward to this year, like a month ago, I went to a seminar and I'm sitting next to a couple of people and just shooting the breeze, like, hey, what's your name? My name is Steve. Oh, what do you do? I'm in learning development. How about you? Oh, I I work for um community outreach education. Like, who do you work with? And they told me, uh, UW, uh, University of Wisconsin, Green Bay. And my response was, do you know Jess? Like, yeah, that's my boss. And I was like, no way. So I took a picture with them and sent it to Jess. But like, what a fun full circle moment. Like, one of those people, I'm assuming, probably ended up getting that position that I was like, oh, maybe I'll get this one. But it didn't work out, I was not the right fit for it. And these two women were amazing, so I they clearly chose correctly, but what a fun full circle moment. I exchange info with them, we now talk, and who knows? Maybe down the road, if I can help them out in some way, fantastic. Or maybe it doesn't happen that way. So what you you gained a friend or two? Yeah, like I can think of worse things. That's a really cool story, too. Just to yeah, it does kind of come full circle and small world for sure. Yeah. Um, that kind of reminds me of just as far as with networking and how it worked out for me, just to get my foot in the door with learning and development. So I left teaching in 2017 and took some time off to do a little bartending, delivered some pizza. It was like the best six months of my life, just as far as no stress and you know, just to do something different. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I knew I wanted to get into learning and development. And so I had gone back to my alma mater and talked to the alumni advisor and said, Hey, I I felt really good about my resume and cover letters that I was typing up because I was getting some responses, and my cousin, who was a like a resume guru, had helped me, and so I felt felt pretty good about where I was at with that. Yeah. So I gave it to the I'm like, I'll see alumni advisor's gonna know if this looks pretty good. And she's like, Yeah, everything looks great, but have you done any networking with any fellow alumni that go to school here? It's like, I don't really know anybody. I I went to school part-time, I you know, I I don't really talk to too many people that I had class with years ago, and she said, Well, go on LinkedIn, go search for our page, and you can find all the fellow, all the few uh past alumni, and then you can search what what um industry they're in. And so I ended up emailing, probably I'm messaging like four or five people that were in learning and development. Nice. End up hearing back from a couple people, and one of the guys' name was Cody, he wrote me back within a couple days and said, Hey, like this is what I do. You might want to look into manufacturing because that's where I work. It's kind of up and coming in training development. There's not a lot of because uh companies are starting to realize the importance of training. So he goes, That's just a just a place you might want to look. I'm heading out of town, but I'd love to connect in a couple weeks when I get back. Sure. Nice and we kind of left it at that. Four or five weeks go past, and I kind of left it at that. Like, okay, you know. He emails me. I didn't reach back out. He emailed me and said, Hey, I couldn't tell you about this when we first connected because this job was going through the final stages, but we have a brand new position that opened up as a training specialist. Your background totally fits that. Do you have any interest in maybe applying and interviewing? And I was like, uh, yeah. So awesome. Applied, interviewed, got the job. Him and I were we we worked together in the same office with our boss and a couple other people. We became good friends, we went to Summerfest together. I was I uh he got invited me to his wedding. We still chat, you know, we don't work together anymore. Sure, but we still have that connection, and I am like, oh my gosh, if I wouldn't have done a couple of those stages and he wouldn't have been he knew what it was like to get laid off and not have a job, and so him reaching out and going on his way was just a really cool thing to do, and it it ended up you know being a really good thing because that led me, I wouldn't be at where I'm now without having that other job, you know, with which led to another job, which led to the so it's just yeah, it's really cool that that stuff comes together. Yeah, that is awesome. Like that's a that's a perfect story. Oh, and I like that you even kind of mentioned that there's that unifying thread, right? Where you went to um your alma mater and they had said you should reach out to alumni. Okay, that's no different than like when you were with ATD and you start to work with or associate more with like-minded individuals in the same industry. Is that any different than like going on a webinar or a seminar of something that's specific to your industry? No, no, and the cool thing is you can go to all kinds, like, and they're either free or they're dirt cheap. Like, you can totally do it. And the cool thing about those is it's already given you a common denominator. You you're in this room because you have a passion for this specific topic. Like the people in here are in here for a reason with you. Like, there you go, there's your platform, just start building. Like, it's pretty easy in that right. You just have to be a little creative sometimes, too, of just which ones actually really strike your fancy. And then, of course, follow through. Like, don't like collect somebody's card and be like, hey, thanks, and then just never contact them. Like, no, man, like don't love them and leave them. Like, this is no one night stand. Like, hey, it was really nice meeting you. And um, hopefully we can chat soon or grab a beer or a cup of coffee, whatever the hell, and we can talk about whatever. All good people like that kind of interaction. Introvert and extrovert. And if it's introvert, maybe it's not that wild and crazy. Maybe it's a nice 20-minute conversation through Zoom. So you can go, okay, I gotta go buy, and you just hit that's fine. So what? Start somewhere, just start somewhere. Text, I don't care what it is, but just start somewhere. You know, you mentioning the uh love them and leave them and one night stand. I wonder if there's a Tinder version for networking. You know, maybe instead of linked in, it's cuff linked off. I'll go back to the drawing board on that one. God, but you know, Steve, you are correct. Uh that was that was dumb. That was dumb. Get get some in-person events. Yes, meet people in person, get your name out there, swap LinkedIn info at the event, ask questions, tell people what you're looking for, and like we've talked about, you'd be surprised at others' willingness to want to help you out. But also don't mistake that for doing the bare minimum if you're job searching. You still need to again have those connections, but also do the work. You're absolutely right. No, totally agree with you, Patrick. Do you know who so unwittingly networked with us many, many years ago? Absolutely. Spinaruski. That's what I'm saying. The spinaruski! It is indeed, folks. While Mr. Patrick fires up the wheel, a reminder for all of you listeners out there. Each episode we spin the spinarooski, a wheel of names that may belong to the woman who so generously shoved Mr. Patrick and I into the ugly club all those years ago. And the goal is that eventually we land on her name and thank her properly. And if you don't know what the ugly club is, you need to listen to episode one now. Alright. Mr. Patrick. Yeah. Are you ready to spin that Rooski? I'm ready. Spin that Rooski! Yeah, yeah. I felt like I had eye of the tiger corking through my veins right there. That was like it. You're not gonna believe this. Do you remember who our guest last week said it was? Wait, no. Tiffany. Oh my gosh, you're right! What is it with the spinarouski? Tiffany! My goodness, you really know how to melt our hearts and for our faces. Um, so thank you for everything you've given us. You are just fantastic. And we appreciate you and everything you've given us. And um I really do feel like it could have been a Tiffany. Uh I think we're alone now, is what Tiffany said. And that is a fantastic uh little one-hit wonder. Do you remember that song? Um well, I'm yeah. Yeah. I think we're alone now. Yeah. Except shh, she she shoved you and I off the side so she could be alone with your your now brother-in-law, and he fought her off with a stick. Not really, that's actually not true. There's there was no physical violence except to Mr. Patrick and I that night. So that was that. That was fantastic. Wow, Tiffany. Uh, you have to make sure that you tell Melissa that. That is insane. Good lord. That was wild. Alright, man. Shout out to some shouts. Yeah, you start us off, man. You do what do you got for a shout-out? So, my shout-out is gonna be the Girl Scout Cookies of America. Oh. I mean, hey, Girl Scouts doing your thing. You guys are you're all awesome. But I want to shout at the cookies. Um, I sat on I I've just got my order of cookies over the weekend because I'm gonna uh blame my sister, but really my niece was sitting on these cookies for like months, right? Like, hey, sure, where are my cookies? So I got them over the weekend and I was very excited. I got five boxes, and I like to play a little game called Challenge Accepted. And so sometimes, Steve, when I get a little treat or a dessert or something that comes in a package, and I like to look at the the nutrition info where it says, I don't care about the sugar and the fat, carbs, protein. I I say how many servings? And it'll say, okay, so let's say gross cow cookies, it'll say uh in a box on thin mints, it'll say ten. What's to say, right? Sure. Challenge accepted. And then you eat the 10? Well, I'm gonna eat, I'm gonna eat it under 10. Like how many servings it is, you know, how many, like how how long should this last? This should let's say I have a serving every day for a week. This is supposed to last seven days. Oh no, no, my friend. I will destroy that. Challenge accepted. I do got for what you got for our shout out. Jesus Christ. Well, um, I actually I'm gonna have two now, but one's really short because uh you mentioned Girl Scouts, um, well, Girl Scout cookies, but I'm gonna say Girl Scouts of America. I'm gonna give a mini shout out to Anna Simpson. She is somebody that I met when I was at an event. Um, she is the CEO of Girl Scouts of Wisconsin Southeast. So uh she's super nice and she is awesome. And you want to talk about somebody that loves what she does. Um, I was texting with her and I said something along the lines of like, because my daughter's in Girl Scouts. And I said, like, oh, my daughter's in Girl Scouts, but you probably hear that a lot, and her response was perfect. And she goes, Steve, I wouldn't be doing what I do if I didn't care. So you better tell me where she's a Girl Scout and how much does she love it? Like, and it was just like so sweet. So um, sincerely, Girl Scout, Girl Scouts of America, you got a good one with Anna. She's awesome. But um, earlier on, I mentioned that I had a cheerleader while I was in a layoff. And that even though this was five so years ago, um I think now is a good time to give a shout out to Karen Smith because she was that person for me. She was constantly there to help me out. She was the embodiment of what networking can do. And I really firmly believe it was just the way she worked with me that has shaped my opinion on how powerful networking is. So, Karen, you're an amazing person. Um, you don't get enough credit. So, sincerely thank you so very much for everything you've done. I think that about does it, right? All right, all goes. That's it for this episode. You all are fantastic. We will say you see you say you, we will see you next week. Same time, same place. Sting it with us. Let's stay in it. Oh that was awesome. You know, cuff links you're still laughing. No, no, no, no, no, really, really, keep going. No, it was it was so good. Oh, it was so good. Tell it again. Say it to my face. Say it like you mean it. That is wild with Tiffany, though. Yes! And I didn't even I didn't even add it like at the bottom. I could I Tiffany wasn't on the list, and but we have like 50 on the list right now. So I add it because most of the time I'm like, oh, I don't think Tiffany's even on there. So I went and added in like the middle of the spinarouski. So it's just totally random still, and I hit Wow, dude. This spinarous it comes and goes just it does. It's that's so crazy. Wow.