The Confidence Paradox

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In this episode of Grossly Competent, hosts Steve and Patrick dissect the phenomenon referred to as The Confidence Paradox, which highlights that experience creates confidence but the very act of doing needs confidence. And of course, the boys figure out a way to relate this into the professional landscape and L&D and stuff, so there's that.

Talk about a mind-Duck. (That's just for you, Apple Podcasts. - Steve)

But before they try to sound smart, Patrick unveils an interesting InMail he received from a Dramatic connection and Steve provides insight into his foolproof method for negating the LinkedIn Pitchslap... by fighting fire with fire.

Like what you hear and want to learn more? Here are some links:

• The Confidence Paradox
• For non-Apple Podcasts listeners, acknowledge the 'E'!

Come for the chat, stay for the laughs, and run from our faces: we're Grossly Competent!

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:29

Hello and welcome to Grossly Competent, the learning, development, and adulting podcast that does not claim to be pretty. I am your host, Steve Council. I'm joined by my co-host, the only Scooby-Doo villain the gang left masked at the end of the episode, Mr.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Patrick Ailshire. Such a classic show. Yeah. With that said, if any adult uses the phrase ro at any point in their life, please smack them. But Steve, I've learned that you approach podcasting like a man trying to land a plane using confidence alone.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Oh, and right you are, Mr. Patrick. Yes, indeed. Uh, folks, we've got some cool things to talk about this week with our 35th foray into the podcast zone, if you will. But first, Mr. Patrick, Listenerland demands to know who is our sponsor of the week.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

This is our biggest lift we've had in, I'll say, weeks. This episode is sponsored by the 2 a.m. Memory Showcase, proudly replaying every embarrassing thing you've ever said since middle school. Featuring remastered anxiety and enhanced cringe clarity. The 2 a.m. memory showcase because sleep is earned.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Whoa, I don't know how you begged the 2 a.m. memory showcase. What you've been working overtime. I bet you did a lot of uh LinkedIn pitch slapping. I did do a lot of LinkedIn pitch slapping.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

P as in Patrick, not as in Patrick. P as in Patrick. Pitch slapping.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Why didn't we say that last week?

SPEAKER_00 2:44

That is not Patrick.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Wow. Susie, thank you, big 2 a.m. memory showcase. Um, yeah. I this one this one strikes a nerve, man. I'm not gonna lie to you. Cause I this suspend belief, folks. I have a lot of those moments. I have a lot of moments I go, why did I say that? Or why did I do that? A lot of them. And I I did it a lot worse when I was a kid.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

So there's that. They sometimes they have and maybe not more recent past, but years ago, would have been a where am I? Or why why am I here? What is life? What is life? What am I what am I doing here?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

And now it's oh god, I did that, didn't I? You know, it's not even like relegated to 30 years in my past. I'll read texts from last week and go, oh god, why do people talk to me? So I got that going for me too. That's great. So I do want to find out what's going on with you, Mr. Patrick, because you know, a man wants to know. But I I don't know if you know this or not, I assume you probably do, but I wanted our listeners to especially know that Apple Podcast they labeled our previous episode as explicit, and they only do that when you use naughty words. Now, folks, if you do me the honors and if you feel like really putting yourself through the ringer and listening, you'll find out we didn't actually use naughty words. Like I think we might have said um a three-letter A word, for example. I like that it did this, even though we were very purposeful in our enunciation of the letter P in pitch slap. So I we've kind of said this in a previous episode. I know we did that. We really think that Apple podcasts must use some sort of like AI algorithm to vet episodes for vulgarities, you little pitches.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

I mean, yeah, you know, yeah, booya. We're already uh hideous enough as it is. Now they're calling us explicit. I mean, that's just downright ugly.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

I just you're right, man. I'm with you. All right. Now that we've got that all covered, what's going on with you, man? What's going on in your neck of the woods, Mr. Patrick? Uh, neck of the woods, that's a good question, Al Roker.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Wait, does he say that? Have you never heard L. Roker say that on the Today show? That's his like catchphrase since like 1980. Is it really 1982? Oh, wow, I shows how much I know. Here's what's happening in your neck of the woods. And then they go to the local. He they do the national the national weather, and then his whole thing is here's what's happening in your neck of the woods, and then they kick it to the local weather. Oh wow, I guess I never realized that. Well, now I know. Let me try that again. That's a good question, Steve Counsel.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

My joke has fallen flat. I'm sorry. It was a it was a really good joke, it was a great joke. I just wasn't smart enough to know it. No, I know our listeners are way smarter, so they're probably like, yeah, that was a good joke.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

And Steve's just not except Gen Z is like Googling Al Roker.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Which is how hilarious you think they're Googling when they're chat GPTing it. Let's be honest here. Come on, call.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

I'm sorry though. I want to know what's going on with you, man. So tell me what's up. I don't want to get too much on a soapbox here about, especially about LinkedIn, because we've given them more than enough publicity lately. But I did have a random inbox message last week that I wanted to share. It was from a newer connection, and I honestly truthfully feel they were just trying to be nice and strike up conversation, but I did find it to be fairly odd. The question I was asked, just out of nowhere, no, there's no communication between us at all since we've connected, which I think was a month or two ago, was the question was what drama has occurred in your life recently? Wait, that was that was genuinely the question. Like, hey Patrick, what drama has happened in your life recently? So I felt that was kind of weird. A weird kind of icebreaker of sorts. I mean, I don't even know this person, other than that we just connected through we had mutual connections or something on LinkedIn. Um, I almost felt kind of attacked. Like, did they know something that happened in my life and should I be outwardly talking about this more? But it's not the question I would have led with when I was when I'm striking up a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

No, no, that's that's not the top of your list. Not quite. Why what kind of a I wow. That is so funny that you instantly bring up LinkedIn because I have something I would like to share about LinkedIn too. And interestingly, it ties in with what you just said, okay. So we talked about this. I'm wetting my lips pitch, p. Pitch slap, right? We talk about pitch slapping and how what happens is if somebody connects with you, you're a sucker, and you go, sure, you look like you have reasonable taste, and then they're like, ah, I got you. Then they just like slam you some BS, right? Yeah. Well, I kind of feel like that's exactly what happened to you, except what a huh. Interesting. I think I solved the puzzle, though, man. I really I I do. I do. I gotta I have to share this with you. Um, and then I might have an idea on a way that you can. Did you address that question already? Your drama. I am not, it is sitting there empty, folks. We are going to solve this live on grossly competent. Awesome. And by that I mean you're probably maybe gonna do it later. I don't know. Anyway, so it's fine. I've had two in the last week, I had two people connect with me, and I was like, oh, okay, like, yeah, I can see this is interesting, and why not? Sure. One was in the LD space, and another one, oh, they're like a district manager or something like that. And they said, like, hey, we're really growing in size, and I think somebody with your background would be really beneficial to connect with. And I was like, Oh, like, oh, you you know, because we're in learning development, we're all about growth in organizations and helping individual like companies grow. So I'm like, Yeah, that sounds cool. If I can help with anything, it sounds great. And as soon as I connected, I swear to god, like the button was like still pressed, and I'm I'm met by hey, now that we're connected, yeah, you want to own a franchise? I'm like, no, no, I don't, man. And I don't know what prompted me to do this, but I pulled a Uno reverse card. So, folks out there, you know that Mr. Patrick has zero proof pass, which is awesome and wildly successful. So, those of you in the Milwaukee, Wisconsin area, you need to get on that train because it's awesome. Well, I have a consulting company of my own that I do, it's just me, myself, and I, nothing wild and crazy. I like to help out companies with their learning and development and leadership development and just growth opportunities. And it's called Humada Consulting. And I don't know what forced me, not forced, just made me think of this, but in response to that, you want to own a franchise. I responded with uh, no, I'm good, but you might find this helpful though. Uh, we at Humada Consulting work with clients much like you to help you build and establish impactful opportunities for your leaders and teams and just help you grow success from within. So, hey, here's our website. And if you want to jump on a call so we can talk a little bit more about it, that'd be really cool, man. Like, thanks. I've done that twice now. Absolute crickets, like, yeah, see what that feels like. You suck, you suck. That is awesome. No way, I did flat out, man. Yeah, yeah. Not only am I putting my my little consulting gig on the side out there, but I'm like, no, man. And I the worst I figured is they they take me up on it, and quite frankly, if one of them decided to take me up on it, I would happily help them out. I would happily work with them, but don't try to jam some rando super secret franchise quote unquote down my throat. Like, oh, you want to own this? Sure, what is it? McDonald's? No, I doubt you're lurking LinkedIn to try to rope me into that. It's probably some rando ass pyramid scheme. Like, get out of my face with that.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Yeah, you know, I like that you said the reverse Uno card, but what I also would love to quote is one of my favorites from The Office is quoting Michael Scott is just every day an everyday thing, really. Yeah. And I will quote this as often as I can. Well, well, well, how the turntables. So I love what you did there, Steve, with that. That is fantastic. Well played.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Well, thank you, sir. Thank you. I am gonna keep doing it until it breaks and somebody calls me out. I'm just gonna keep doing it because why not? Like, sure, go ahead. But I think we need to solve your little question. The the question I was posed to you, the drama one. I think you can do something similar. And I'm gonna I'm kind of spitballing this, but it obviously we have to include zero proof pass. And it I try to think, like you could do something like uh the only drama I'm having right now is finding a good place to get NA beers and mocktails when I just when I just want to relax, man. But thankfully the folks at Zero Proof Pass make that easy and affordable for me. So how many how many zero proof passes could I count on you to order?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

That is awesome. Yes. Honestly, I want to I'm gonna use that. That's so good.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

I think you should. I really do. I really think you should. You know what? I'm thinking of this now because I bet we have listeners are like, no, you didn't say that. You're like, no, I did. I think I'm gonna take screenshots and put them on our Instagram. You're like, no, I did too. This is exactly what I said. So, Patrick, if you decide, if you want to, and I get it if you don't want to, but if you do that, please do a screenshot so we can put it on Instagram. We're just handing out advice, just handing out life lessons for all the sinners of the world.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yes, how is this a free podcast?

SPEAKER_01 14:54

I don't know, you know, folks, you know, uh, we do have a support package. I'm just saying, folks. But I I actually do mean this though, for those of you out there, and maybe you don't have a side gig, like that's totally cool, man. I get it. I think if you just turn things around on these individuals, it shuts them down instantly. So even if you don't have a side gig, maybe you're a carpenter, or maybe you're an IT, like I don't care, whatever you're in. Somebody comes to you with one of those BS little pitch slaps, throw it right back at them. Be like, I thank you, and I appreciate that. But what are you using for your current IT software? Like, just hotcha, just get them, get them. They're doing it to you, might as well do it back. Fight fire with fire.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

I don't know. Yes, absolutely. That's a good call.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

But uh, what I'll I'll finish off this with it because I want to get into our topic. Like, I really do. Listeners out there, if you decide to do this, you really should take screenshots too. Like, tag us, please, at Grossly Competent on Instagram, please. Um if just to be fair, if you want to like blotch out names and stuff like that, I'm totally cool with that, man. Like, we don't need to throw people too hard under the bus. But if you're also like this person's annoying and they deserve it, they're gonna lose sleep. I'm I'm cool with that, man. But I don't know, unless you think like I don't know, I don't think that's in bad taste. I I think that's fun.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

If you if you yeah, if you block out the names, I think it's all fun.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yeah, all right. So, folks, if you do it, just block out names. I might, I don't know. We'll see. So, should we dive in today, man?

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

All right, sounds good. So I uh speaking of social media and whatnot, but I don't know about you. Um, I had quite a few people send me like whether it was a text or like an actual real message on LinkedIn, not one that involved a sale of some kind, but they it like that topic really resonated with quite a bit of folks. They were like, I really like that. Yes, I think there is something to that, like this idea that people always feel like they need to be on, and I think that was your your verbiage for it, they need to be on, and um I and then that part with the Dunning Kruger, Kruger. Oh my god, yeah, I'm really calling it out, aren't I? Just seeing that kind of play out professionally in real time. So I think what I I was just kind of tweaked my mind of something that I thought would be kind of interesting to talk about is this concept that I've heard called the confidence paradox, and that is where the often loudest person is typically either the least informed or least qualified, and I I think that wraps really nicely into our conversation from last week. Man, you just called me right out.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Jeez, booya! Hey, thanks for joining us, folks. Uh no, well, you know what? I may be loud, but I am informed on this one, Steve. I do think this will lend itself to a great discussion. Where would you like to start? Um, I don't know. I'm just kidding. You're not very paradoxical right now in your confidence.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

No, I guess why don't we start with just this idea of like, and I think for as you and I as facilitators, we run into this in a very different bracket than say a CEO or maybe like like a production manager or something like that. That has like a lot of people that report to you. I feel like there is this growing trend that if you're the loudest, that makes you the rightest. Like and I'm I'm using the the wrong verbiage on purpose, but that's not necessarily the case. It's just that you're taking attention from everything else and really applying it to you. I don't know. Like that's to me, that's a fascinating piece of this puzzle, and that really I think kind of harkens back to our conversation last week on these linked influencers really wanting to make it a point to like call attention to all these things that they're just like these subject matter experts on, and then you look at them like, and I know age doesn't necessarily mean they can't know it, but it's like, dude, you're trying to like play off that you have like 30 years of experience and you're 19. Like, I don't, I don't know, man. Like, I'm I'm not buying it.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

So I don't know. Do you remember in school, maybe grade school, middle school, actually, probably high school too, the class clowns who were always oh wait, that was you, Steve. I know. I I was, I was though. The the per the people not um not maybe every time, but a lot of times were the people that were trying to be funny and make the jokes is because I'm a former teacher, so I saw this at the elementary level that those were the kids that were didn't always know what was going on as far as the content goes, and they were just trying to be funny and try to deflect the fact that they maybe were unfamiliar about the topic. And so that I know it's different in the work professional work environment, but I think it it kind of ties in a little bit about like, hey, I feel like I need to put myself out there to make myself known, even though I really may not really know what the heck I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah, and I agree with you in well, I do have to kind of you know laugh a little bit because when I said that I was the class clown, I I'm not necessarily lying. There is a there is a yearbook out there somewhere where somebody on this podcast whose name is not Patrick Um was labeled as the class clown. So take that as you will. And I was also a very, very good C, maybe C minus student. So maybe some credence to what you're saying. I'm kidding. I was I was a little, I don't know, I was average at best. Anyway, nothing about my high school career needs to be talked about anymore. Um I do think you're right though. Like there is this, there is this need for validation, and I think in your comment, Context of saying like the class clown kind of thing, like it's that validation from your peers to deflect from what you may or may not know, rather than just putting in the time that might be necessary to learn the subject, or just to be vulnerable and authentic and say, I don't know this. Can you help me? And in the professional environment, I get it. It can be cutthroat, but your really seasoned leaders, like the people that really know what's going on, like they can see that confidence paradox so easily. And I I shouldn't speak on your behalf. I feel like I can sniff that out pretty quick, especially now where I'm at in my career. I know when somebody is bluffing compared to, oh, they really know their stuff.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, I would uh I would agree with that, especially when we are facilitating training. Yeah. Yeah. When you're you know trying to get conversation flowing from a whole room of people, you can see those that ones that are maybe a little bit quieter, but also and are soft spoken, but they they do have something of value to share. And then you've got some of those that maybe want to talk a lot, but sometimes it's like, well, that's just kind of noise. It doesn't always apply to what we're discussing.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

You know, I there's a couple things that you said that I really want to make sure I hit, and that was people that have something to contribute, like that they have something to say. My argument is always that everybody has something valid to say. They just need to articulate it, they just need to take that time and own their statement. And not just, I'm not saying like, don't just regurgitate what's being said to you, but like take the actual time to go, like, I want to learn more about this, or I don't understand this exactly. Can you walk through this, or can you give me an example? Or this happened to me. Is that kind of what you're talking about? Dude, as a facilitator, as anybody that is an education, you get that kind of question. You're like, hook line sinker, you got me. I am roped in. Let's talk about this because they're invested, like they want to learn, and they're showing you they want to learn. Um, and and I think that kind of ties in with this idea of being emotionally intelligent, too. Just you need to be aware of what you do and do not know. And how does that make you feel? Does it make you feel inferior or does it embolden you? Whatever, and then just being confident with that and pushing through to get the help that you need and not feeling like it's a sense of weakness, but it's really a sense of strength. It's it's empowerment.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

It comes down to also being humble and to having that aware that awareness, as you said, comes in with emotional intelligence of saying, okay, I I might be really strong and confident in this one area, but that doesn't mean I know all this other stuff.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

I mean, part of like in my in my organization, my team, we have a couple learning and development specialists, we have our LMS coordinator, we have our leader, we've got all these different positions, and our our goal on the team is to learn from one another. I am not expected to be the subject matter expert on our LMS, but I actually do know a fair amount. I have access, I have the back office access to that because there's times where this coordinator's out. And if it's something I can go in and do and be still proficient at, that's great. Uh, on the flip side, the LMS coordinator maybe isn't gonna get up and facilitate a whole course, but she knows how to design curriculum and to do those necessary things that I know how to do very well. So I don't know. I I think it just kind of tying some of that in too of you know, you are having, let's say, attendees in your class who are comfortable in one thing but not in the other, and and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Yeah, it's funny because when you were talking about how everybody has their own specific skill set, right? Like you're saying you may not be the full-blown subject matter expert on the learning management system, but you have like an understanding of it, so you can fit, you can pinch it, right? Like you can go in there and and take care of that. For some reason, this is the way my brain works. I'm whatever. I was thinking of Tony Stark, and I'll explain why. Because if you're not familiar, folks, Tony Stark is the fictional character that is Iron Man in like the Marvel universe. And Tony Stark has this reputation of being everything, right? Like he's the smartest man, he's a I think he's a billionaire in the like that universe. I'm assuming, based off everything he has, he's maybe he's a trillionaire, I don't know, whatever. So he's this like playboy, he's a philanthropist, like he's all of these things, he's physically fit. Like, there's nothing Tony Stark isn't, like, he's just everything. And funny enough, I I like what you said earlier about how every single person on a team, so in an organization, you all bring your own skills to the table. Nobody has to be the jack of all trades. Because like, what's how's that phrase go? It's like jack of all trades, master of none, right? Like, why don't you focus on the things that you're really good at and bring that to the table rather than feeling like you have to be good at every single thing, and then stretching yourself to the point that you end up not being very useful in the end. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Definitely. Yeah, I uh I think those those go hand in hand kind of tying.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

And you know, and what really with this uh, you know, and in my understanding and and kind of past experience in this confidence paradox is the idea that those that maybe are very skilled but quiet don't always have that self-echo efficacy and that belief that they can do it, where those that maybe don't have the skills are super confident when really they maybe should humble themselves a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

We talked about this on a prior episode, imposter syndrome. Yeah, and if and folks, if if you don't remember what that is, that is it's I I believe it is it's what's that book, the the psychological um 85 or what whatever. I'm making myself look like an idiot. Anyway, it's out there, okay. So, what imposter syndrome is, is it is this inherent feeling like you're going to be found out as a fraud because you don't feel like you really represent your true skill set. Um, and as somebody that I struggled with imposter syndrome hard, hard in my past. And I'll actually blame it somewhat on interestingly, this exact conversation of seeing people that were 20, 30 possible years ahead of me in their experience level, they just had this confidence, but they they just looked like they knew all the answers, and they didn't. Like they didn't, and that's that's a good thing that they didn't, but I didn't know that. And I'm thinking, yeah, I am so inadequate, and once they find me out, I'm screwed. Well, now I'm I would like to say I'm far enough in my career and I'm confident in the things I know and the things I don't, and I don't BS the things I don't. Hell, anybody listening to this podcast over the last 35 episodes has heard me say I don't know roughly a million times. Like, I I just I'll admit it if I don't know that, cool, I'll learn more about it. Hell, you mentioned Al Roker saying neck of the woods earlier. I'm like, really? Well, I didn't know that. Yeah, I just I didn't like, but I don't feel shame for having to say that. I just I didn't know, and I think that's easy for something like that specific example. It's harder, especially for individuals just breaking into the professional market to say the words I don't know because they're afraid it's going to drop them out of the running for certain positions. That's that's a hell of a weight, man. Like that is a real weight to carry on your shoulders.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

You know, it was fun. I am not like shocked whatsoever when you say I don't know, because I know you, I know you, I know you don't know, but no, but I but no, because I know you and I don't know anything, uh everything either, right? But you know who is surprised when you say I don't know is a bunch of second graders. When they ask you a question, they think Mr. Ailshire, this question, I don't know. You don't know the answer, you don't know all the answers. I'm like, no, go home and ask your mom. Well, but what I wanna what I want to just mention before I before I forget, Steve, is that so we're talking a lot about it in in professional development space, in the in the workspace, what do you think is good. But I want to just shift gears for a second to talk about this confidence paradox of in other areas of our life and what that might look like. And you know, kind of going back to that false confidence, right? You're gonna have a lot, you're gonna see that in in your careers, you're gonna see that kind of what you were talking about with LinkedIn in entrepreneurship, right? With startups, with people just kind of almost faking it till you make it, right? Like in with with Zero Proof Pass, I don't have a business background, but I feel comfortable with what I am what I'm selling. But there's times where I'm just like, oh, this is great and doing this and all that, but I I'm still learning as I go. You have it, you have it in the the dating world nowadays, right? People wanting to come off all confident, like, oh, I'm so confident in my ability. But you know what? There's a good chance they're nervous inside, they're feeling a little bit like, you know, I I don't want to screw this up and all that type of stuff. You think back to your your LinkedIns, your TikToks, your Instagrams, your Facebooks, all these social media gurus, right? Who like to yeah. If there's a really good quote I love by this fitness guy I follow. He's a former um bodybuilder. He's always preached, like his whole career, he's always preached that he, you know, he's clean. He doesn't support any, even like um, let's say like protein powders or whatever, which are good and are creatine, right? He won't he he he supports that industry because he uses it, but he will never be someone to say, like, hey, can you promote this? Because he goes, Nope, I just I keep it level playing field. I don't want to get my name attached to any of that stuff, right? Yeah. But what he has always said is it's so great. People like email him questions or they'll post something on Facebook and hey, what I watched this documentary. And he always says, Don't ever get your health advice from Netflix, you know, like so like just remind them, you know, don't get your in, don't get your from TikTok or whatever, because you don't know. These people are just coming on, they're they're you know, the this the car use car salesmen at times, and you really just don't know. And so I think like that part tied into about you do have people that are maybe a little quieter that know what they're talking about, but they're not as vocal on social media, where then you have those that are just looking for those likes, looking for those those shares and whatever. It just I don't know, it's it's comical, you know that no, I love that phrase.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

That's awesome. Don't get your health advice from Netflix. Yeah, I agree. When you were when you were saying that story, something popped in my head, and I'm gonna try to articulate it because whatever. There, I feel like everybody's looking for answers, right? And I'm I know I've been kind of not picking on, but I've been calling out individuals trying to break out into the marketplace because it is tumultuous as daylights right now. Like, it is so hard to break into the current market. I know it, man. Like, you you see all these folks on layoffs or whatnot, and they're having they have years of experience and they're having a difficult time. I can't imagine what it's like to just like graduate high or college right now or high school, really, and try to break into this market. Holy god, like I feel bad. But what I'm trying to get at is maybe, maybe I am being too hard on some of these linked influencers or the social media gurus. Maybe they really are trying to give an answer because people want answers, they're just not giving the right ones, and it's really up to us, right? Like it really is up to us to be able to discern what works and what doesn't for us, because maybe what they're peddling their their confidence is they have this answer and it worked for like one person, and that's wonderful for that one person, but it doesn't work for 99 other people. So I don't know. Like I don't for some reason when you were saying maybe I was just inspired by this guy being so true to his word, and like, no, I'm not going to attach my name to that. I want to give uh sound advice to people. He's doing that because he feels like he has the answer, and I bet he does. He's got the experience and the wherewithal to show it. I like that he doesn't want to hitch his wagon to somebody that he can't validate, does or does not have those answers. Funny enough, what we're talking about with like these linked influencers or social media gurus and whatnot that are peddling, dare I say, misinformation. They're doing it for clicks, they're doing it for clout, they're doing it for um that that high of ooh, look how many followers I have. And I'm sorry, but look at like the current state of the world right now, and please do not grab pitchforks. I'm not going to name political sides or anything like that, but the amount of times you hear, like, oh, this person said this, did they? Like, there'll be a headline that says it, and then you read the article, it's like, well, no, no, they didn't. Or it'll like be like some sane-washing thing, like, so-and-so says things are great, and you're like, that's not what they said, and then you look at and you're like, No, that is not all. You do have to be careful of where do you get your answers, and then where are you gonna hitch your wagon to, like be mindful, and my people that I have this discussion with, that you know, friends that I decide that politics is something I'm gonna talk about, or whatever the topic of interest is. But um, since I said politics, I'll say it, and that is if I don't know something, I will admit it. I'll be like, I did not know that. And I will do my due diligence to try to like, I wonder what that's about, and then just like try to check it out. And I won't just check out one source that I'm like, well, I love this one because they say what I like. No, dude, check out a couple of different things and try to figure out what is really going on with that. And I do think that that confidence paradox ties directly into that. And the professional, and you said like dating and personal relationships, dude, all of it ties into that. Just god damn, like just be mindful of like what you're saying, and if you don't know it, dude, just admit it. It's okay, it's okay to say I don't know, and then try to learn about it. No one's gonna really fault you for that. I promise you. And if they do, you don't want to be around them anyway.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

No, I I feel that it always circles back and ties back into authenticity, which we talk about a lot on here. And you know, when you create the, you know, with with someone who's got that imposter syndrome, it's like just yeah, you know, it's okay not to know everything, yeah. No one, no one's gonna fault you for that.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Yeah, and and I I've said this but like just before, and I said it in the episode we talked about imposter syndrome. Like I really struggled with that for years because I just there was something I felt like I wasn't adequate enough. And once I kind of let go and realized professionally, well, the things I don't know, it doesn't make sense for me to mask them. I should just try to build on them. And once I changed that mind frame, I genuinely was more successful, I was able to establish better relationships in the like the professional atmosphere, and I'm just a lot happier. And it sounds so ridiculous, but it's genuinely that easy, genuinely, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Yeah, yeah, and it's crazy. Like, and I I was thinking about this earlier this week that I feel like if I had like a tattoo on my forehead, I guess it would be authenticity and genuine because I feel like I'm saying that all the time, but dude, there's truth to it. There really, really is like folks out there. If you are one of those folks that's struggling with it, or deep down you know you're trying to kind of mask those things, don't just come out, admit it, and try to be better about it. That's it. That's really that's the magic serum. That's it. Like well, Patrick, do you know who we could never designate as loud mediocrity? Spin a rooski. The spinarouski. You're right. It is, it's the spinneruski. Now, folks, before I get into what the spinneruski is, I have to pull out my phone here because Mr. Patrick sent me something, I believe. You sent it as an email or a text? I did email. D oh, I'm sorry. What do I don't even need my silly phone? I gotta get into my email here. Pardon me, folks. Because some of you may not realize this because we're really, really good at hiding it. Um, and that is um I don't I can't actually see the spinneruski. Like, I can't. Um, I know I claim it's a wooden wheel, but now I'm looking at the spinneroski. This is beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

I don't know if it's gonna like sink. I I was I'm hoping it's like a kind of like Google where you can like see people do it, but it it it it may air may we're gonna find out, okay? So all right.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Oh, hold on. I I forgot. I didn't even say what the spinneroski is for our fine folks out there. So, listeners, if you're unfamiliar or you just need a recap, the spinneruski is a wheel of names that might hopefully belong to the woman who so generously shoved Mr. Patrick and I into the ugly club all those many moons ago. And the goal of the spinnerooski is that we will eventually land on her name by happenstance so we can thank her properly. All right. With all of that being said, Mr. Patrick, you ready to spin that rooski?

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Ready.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

All right. Oh, spin it. Good spin that roosk. Is it going around for you? No. But that's okay. We'll figure out that's okay. You can you can see the wheel now. I could. I can. Zoe. Oh my gosh, Zoe? Oh, I know a Zoe, and she's just a wonderful, wonderful delight. She's lots of fun. Zoe. Wow. Well, thank you. So I really do think that she could have been a Zoe.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

It's I mean that was very common in the bar scene. Uh yeah in PRV on that time.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

It's very possible. It's very dive bar y. No, I'm kidding. I'm joking for all the Zoeys out there going, hey, wait a minute. No, I wouldn't say that about you. What I would say is thank you very much for living rent free in our heads and shoving Mr. Patrick and I into. The ugly club. You have given us such a wonderful gift, and we appreciate you so much.

unknown 44:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Steve, I think.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

It's time for some shout-outs. Let's do some shout-outs. Who do you have? You fire us off, man. I want to just quickly give a shout out to our Instagram followers and to keeping the social media conversations alive. Appreciate all of you. Would love to have more of you join us. We are getting better at posting a little more often, so we're uh we're working on it. So yeah, I'm terrible. I I I'm good. I'll take care of it. Uh, but we'd love to have you on there and just follow along with any, you know, we might be posting, you know, some random screenshots of inbox conversations on LinkedIn, or give a shout-out to any of you that tag us.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

No mites about that. That's happening. Dude, I love it. Mine's actually kind of similar, which is really funny. Actually, like kind of weird. I wanted to give a shout-out to there. Were quite a few folks that reached out either via LinkedIn or Instagram that have connected with us, and I just wanted to kind of echo your sentiment and just saying, Patrick and I really appreciate it. I was having a conversation with somebody earlier this week. She has her own podcast, and we were chatting, and she mentioned about how much it means to her when people interact with her via socials to get an idea of like what works, what do you like, what you dislike? It really feels like a true conversation that way. Like it's such a fun part. I would dare say it's one of my favorite parts is for somebody to come to me and say, Hey, I really liked this part of this episode. I'm like, dude, thank you. Like that means a lot to me. Or when they say things like, I loved it when you made fun of Patrick for looking at a solar eclipse. And I'm like, Yeah, that was me in real time doing that. That wasn't scripted.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

And I said, and then you're like, no, I appreciate the call out, Mr. Ailshire.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

Yeah, I liked when you ripped on my kid. Yeah, I'm joking, Mr. and Mrs. Ailshire. I would never hurt your son's feelings, my goodness. But I do uh just to kind of follow that out, and just saying, please continue to connect with both Patrick and I on those socials. We are trying to be better about the Instagram stuff. Um, that's on my to-do list. I need to be better, but you have to realize I'm a bit of a an Instagram virgin, so just you know, you gotta hold my hand sometimes. But for those of you, this is my call to action for you. If you feel so inclined, you actually like what Patrick and I are doing. We would love it if you just do like just give that five-star review. Like, I know it takes a little extra time, but it means the world, man. And we would thank you so much. Like, we would really appreciate it. Well said, Mr. Steven Cornelius. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate that. Should we should we shut this puppy down? I think so. Nice. All right, Uggo's. That's it for this episode. Thank you again. We love you, and we will see you next time on thirty-six.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Oh ugly.

unknown 48:23

Ow.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Ugly owl. You legit scared me. But it was was so good. It was so dolant. Never stop chasing your dreams. Never stop. Oh my God. That was awesome. Oh my gosh.