Pitches Get Stitches

Now this is a pitch that won't result in a stitch!

In this episode of Grossly Competent, hosts Steve and Patrick delve into one of their favorite subjects they love to hate: LinkedInfluencers!

That's right folks - the boys are back at it for another round against the corporate faux-fluencers as they attempt to psychologically analyze why this type of mentality is so pervasive in the professional atmosphere. Is it because someone didn't hug them enough? Or is it because they find connecting with people must involve a 'pitchslap'? Or perhaps it's a fear of being truly authentic?

Tune in to find out what the boys discover might be the root of it all!

Here are some links to some stuff Steve and Patrick mention:

• Children of the Self-Absorbed by Nina W. Brown, EdD, LPC
• Tech Neck
• Dunning-Kruger Effect - How 93% of all American Drivers rank in the top 50%...
• Happy Birthday, Sir David Attenborough!
• Spencer Jones - Jonesin' For: Live your Life to the Max

Come for the chat, stay for the laughs, and run from our faces: we're Grossly Competent!

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:29

Hello and welcome to Grossly Competent, the learning, development, and adulting podcast that does not claim to be pretty. No, but we'll happily pretend to be slightly competent. I'm your host, Steve Counsel, joined by my co-host, whose lick Whoa.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Dude, that is so mean. I can't believe you just said that.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Whose looks my god, whose looks can only be described by sound effects, Mr. Patrick Ayleshire. Wow! At least I said my name right this week. I I did that. I win. What prize do I get?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Well, thank you, good sir. Steve, you have the rare ability to sound both over prepared and underqualified at the exact same time.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Yeah. Yeah, you're correct. Um, and uh you may have noticed that I even threw in like the AI saying my name, like Steve Counsel, right? Like I did that intentionally so I wouldn't screw up saying my own name, but what I do is I can't pronounce the word looks. So that's that's nice. That's great. Yeah, welcome folks. Uh strap in. Yeah, this is gonna be those kind of days. Yeah. We have a lot of things going on this week. Patrick and I chatted, and we came to the conclusion that our topic is long overdue. Uh, but before we get into it, um, Mr. Patrick, our listeners demand to know who is our sponsor of the week? Get ready for this one.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Today's episode is brought to you by Suddenly it's Sunday night. You had plans. You had ambition. Now you're standing in your kitchen eating shredded cheese over the sink while mentally preparing for emails. Suddenly, it's Sunday night. Time moves fast when you're avoiding yourself.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Oh, that one that one kind of cuts. Like, that's uh I feel like this is a bit of an existential crisis sponsor. Like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

I eat and shredded cheese over the sink. Don't judge me. The week, how is the weekend over already? It just started.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Oh man. Well, thank you. Uh suddenly, it's Sunday night. Your check is in the mail. We appreciate it. Isn't there there's a name for that? It's like the Sunday scaries or Sunday night scaries, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:21

That was a thing. That was a thing when I was teaching. That's that's like legit for when you essentially dread waking up the next day. And I may have shared that on here. I don't get those anymore because I do enjoy my job. Now, I I am not gonna be one of the one of the influencers you see, or you know, those people that are like, oh my god, every day. I love I love Monday mornings and I love my you know that the fact is when I go to bed on Sunday, it's like, oh, that was a great weekend. Now I gotta all right, work the next day, but that's just what I do, so I can but yeah, Sunday scary's were a thing. So I enjoy my shredded cheese over the sink now.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

You know what? That is, and you deserve that. You deserve. You deserve to eat all the Sargento you want over the sink. I actually worked with a very, very lovely young lady whose father worked at Sargento. Um, so every now and then she would bring like bags of shredded cheese to work and was like, here, just help yourself. Like, oh, okay. It's the first time I tried the uh Chipotle flavor of uh Sargento, and it was pretty great, not gonna lie to you.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

But were you sorry to cut you off, were you passing around the cheese like it was a bag of chips? Like, oh, help yourself, and people were uh no, not like that.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

No, but she would bring it in like these like large bags, and it's like, yeah, just help yourself, which was just a lovely thing, it was very sweet. So, Victoria, if you're listening, don't think I've forgotten about you. That was wonderful that you did that. That was very sweet. Um I I definitely sympathize though, man, with the Sunday scaries. Um, I've certainly had positions in my past where that's a thing. So I sympathize. Folks out there, if you get those, that is your body's way of telling you that something is drastically wrong and it needs to be fixed. So don't put that stuff off, man. Well said, well said. Yeah. I can't help but notice that you were talking about some some influencer action, maybe. Is did I catch that little whisk?

SPEAKER_01 5:34

You you did, yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Dude, okay. I I just I have to get this off my chest. I if you I know where this is going. Most likely. Folks, if you have been a listener for a while, uh, you know that I have a seething hatred with the temperature of a thousand suns towards BS inauthentic linked influencers. And you know exactly who I'm talking about. And I feel like I don't know if it's like spring, so they're like, ooh, time for me to just start erupting out of the ground, but they have been, I feel like, coming out in the droves. Have am I the only one, or have you noticed this?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Steve, first off, I have to say, I love when you get amped up about LinkedIn and LinkedIn influencers. It's not only that your hatred is a temperature of a thousand suns, it's a thousand suns during a solar eclipse. It's even worse.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Well, the nice thing is I know you can see me during that solar eclipse.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Good one. Um, I'm sorry, I interrupted you. For a while, it did feel like the LinkedIn gods must have been listening to our podcast because there was I felt that there while for a while there, a few months, we'll say there was a bit of repro of a reprieve. However, lately I agree, they've been back with a full kick to the crotch.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yeah, I I I could not agree with you more. Like within, I don't know, I would say probably the last month, I have seen this eruption take place. But I uh I came across a couple of folks that are fighting the good fight. And I I am happy to report that they are using some terminology that I thought was hilarious, and I I wanted to share it with everybody. For example, um, so the there was a specific post that kind of launched me into this tirade of like, oh my god, I sympathize. So any of you that have listened to previous episodes know how much I hate when somebody will request to be a connection, and you're like, oh, I can see like you have similar backgrounds. So it's like, yeah, I love doing this. I will people that have connected with me and you share a valid, real interest me, I will talk to you, I will give you advice, I'll I'll share best practice, I'll do all that stuff. I have no problem. I'm an open book. What I despise is when somebody uses that as an in, like, haha, time for me to do my sales pitch. So somebody posted a meme, and I'll I'll see if we can't like put this in the show notes or something like that. Um, it is a meme that the text is exclusively just says um like asterisk, accepts connection request and asterisk. And it's a picture of like Oprah Winfrey holding her head, and it's surrounded by all of these little phrases. Like, do you have 15 minutes? Here's my Callendly link. Uh hey, first name, and it's like written in brackets, like they didn't even take the time, or like my company page, or B2B, B2B, S A S. I'm like, oh my god, like so that resonated with me. And one of the phrases that was used is these are what are called pitch slaps, as in like with a P. Folks, yes, with a with a P. Um, so Apple Music, do not do not give us the E. Don't give us the naughty E. Pitch slap. As the prodigy would have said, change my picture, slap my pitch, my pitch up. Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome, millennials. You're welcome. Uh, but I saw that and I went, oh hell yeah. Did I I can't remember, did I share that one with you, Patrick? Did you see that one? Or I can't I have not, so no.

unknown 10:08

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah, that's that sounds really, really funny.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

So I'm yeah, a pitch slap. I thought I was like, oh, you are you're awesome.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

I like when you mentioned the uh not only the hey first name bracket, but also the here's my calendar link. You want to let's sub some time to chat. I'm not interested in whatever you're trying to sell me, okay? Leave me alone. I always love when people try to sell me on something on LinkedIn. Yes, yes, I said sell me on something, not necessarily sell me something. Whether that's you know, like whether that's some some bullshit or some random program they are trying to peddle.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yeah. Here's looking at you, Knowledge City.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Oh yeah, they are never gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

I just recently, I think about a week ago, or maybe it was two weeks ago, I had another lurker from them and they tried to connect with me. I was like, guess who's getting reported as harassment? Guess who's getting that one? Yeah, I haven't had to report anyone in months, so it's yeah. That's how I noticed. Like that was that was part of my calling of wait, they're coming back like in force. You're right. I think there was a there was a peaceful moment where I'm assuming the LinkedIn algorithm was like, all right, guys, maybe pump the brakes on these folks. Clearly not. Yeah, that all that ship has sailed. But dude, the pitch slap I loved, but I I I really I think I might need to steal this. Somebody in the comments on that specific post uh made a mention. So if you're not familiar, listeners out there, if you're not familiar with LinkedIn and like what your profile looks like and whatnot, so you have your first, like you have a picture of you, you have your first, last name, whatever, and then you have like a not a byline, but you have an opportunity to kind of expound a bit more on who you are as a professional because it's the quote unquote professionals network, right? Which I'm starting to see less and less. But um, like for example, me, Steve Counsel, the learning and development guy, and also podcast guy, that's what I have as my not verbatim, but it's something along the lines of like learning and development strategist, uh nerd enthusiast, I think I have on there because I'm quite dorky, and then something about like podcast host of grossly competent, something like that, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:40

And a lot of people, if they don't have something they want to share like that, they'll put that's where they'll put their job, their current job title.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

But you're right, it is like a we'll say 50 character area or so where you can kind of again describe yourself in minimum amount of words.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

And and some people have fun with it, some are just like like Patrick said, where it's just very nuts and bolts. Um, I am this. Okay, yeah, cool. Um, so somebody in the the comments of this specific post um circled, like they took a screenshot of their uh their profile and then circled, and it says, pitches get stitches. And I just love that.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I was like, that is amazing, and I I don't think I have agreed with something more in my life. Pitches do get stitches.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

So for someone, Steve, that's doesn't understand what that what is she trying to say?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

So apparently you haven't been a snitch because otherwise you'd get some stitches.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

So essentially, don't be that person that reaches out to me to pitch your oh, were you actually being sincere?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

I were you just screwing it up.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

In case people didn't Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

So what's it okay? That's totally fair, man. Okay, I thought you were screwing with me. Um uh pitches get stitches is a uh um a play on the phrase of snitches get stitches, where if you snitch on somebody, you're gonna get you're gonna get beat up. So uh uh maybe maybe some younger folks are not familiar with that phrasing, but I would assume that some of our millennial and older are very familiar with that phrasing. So you know what? Thank you for being all inclusive, man. I did not think to do that. So good on you, man.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

I I do think that is very creative, though. Uh I do approve. Um, right? You know, and one of my favorite posts appeared earlier this week as well. When you saw that when I saw one from a newish connection, I'm gonna call him out by name, Scott Morphe, who his little area in his profile, little like about tagline areas, says he is a storyteller that connects with creators and decision makers. He posted what I would consider a sweet ass picture from his hike in Lutson, Minnesota, and he captioned it with It was in this moment on a hike in Lutson, Minnesota, that I thought about something related to professional life in order to make this LinkedIn post. So his post again was looks like he was hiking somewhere, uh, beautiful scenery, it looks like some sort of lake or pond in the in the background, some nice trees, like very cool picture. Yeah. And I love that post, what his he stated. It seemed very tongue-in-cheek. Um, and as a matter of fact, both you and I commented on his post. Because I think I in LinkedIn, again, if you're not familiar with how they're like essentially their main page works, is that you usually will get updates about if someone that you follow likes someone, like something, or they commented on something, or someone that you follow posts something. So that was where I had commented on Scott's post, and then Steve saw it, and so then he commented on it.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

I I have to admit, I was not 100% sure if uh Mr. Scott was joking. So I yeah, so I uh you said something along the lines of like in retort to Scott, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

I said yes, I said to his whole thing of when he said it was in this moment, I thought about something related to professional life in order to make this LinkedIn post. And I responded, God, I hope not, unless it was how this view reminded you of B2B sales and how to make the most of your days.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

And then I, like an ass, decide to go even further. Like Patrick, you see that tree over there in the distance playing wistfully in the breeze? Just like that tree, businesses need to learn to adapt to the cooling breeze of consumer sales and marketing. And those clouds, well, those are just clouds, but we can learn a lot from their patterns when we apply it. And like I just kept going. It's like, yeah, because the sad thing is that's on par with how utterly cringe and ridiculous some of these posts are. So if any of you are out there listening and you have the gall or the notion to go, like, boy, I was I was walking through the woods and I I stumbled on some squirrels, and they really, they really got me to just stop it, stop it, delete the entire post and reflect on every decision that brought you to that point. My god, it's just awful, man. Like, uh, it's so it's so frustrating because it's so not genuine, dude. Like, it's it's not.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Come on, and it's not this is not it's not the same as sitting there, Steve. If you're watching your kids maybe uh at a sporting event or whatever, and you're like, wow, this is so cool, like this, they're doing their thing and they're loving it. Okay, you sit there and you have that thought, and you maybe talk to your your family or friends about it. Yes, you don't jump on your computer and say, I was watching my daughter run around on the soccer field today and she tripped on the blade of grass, and it reminded me of how precious and fragile grass is. Yes, you can have those moments. I mean, I'm I'm childless, but I walk my dog and I see sometimes she's like got this stupid grin on her face. I'm like, oh, she's probably either so relieved to go outside, or because she has to go, or the fact it's such a nice day, and you know, I kind of look at her and I just laugh to myself. I don't immediately have to go back to my apartment, pull out my phone, and make some novel about well, yeah, and I think you're right.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Like, and I think that's really for me personally, in a way, that's the crux of it all. They're stretching so hard to see these analogies that really aren't there. Like, they're it's that's what I mean by it just being so inauthentic, it's just not genuine. Now, I think an example that could go against that grain is let's just say, for example, my kids have a lemonade stand. Okay, they do a lemonade stand, and after they put in a whole day's worth of work, they end up with either like a lot of you know, good amount of money, or they don't end up with anything. Like they they worked really hard and didn't earn anything. That's a real lesson. Now, am I gonna go on to a professionals network where I'm there's CEOs, there's presidents of organizations that have access to this. Like it's not just you know, whatever, middle management, if you will. Everybody has access to this. Are they really learning something from that? Like, are they going like, my god, this Steve Counsel and his children, they worked so hard, and boy, they really learned a lesson. No, they're not. That's so dumb. You know what that person's thinking is, I don't care. Move on. Lemonade is stupid. Yeah. Those kids deserved it.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Like, if they didn't have used it, they should have been charging five dollars for a cup.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yeah, yeah, exactly. They should have been using on what what the hell is that? The Amazon service, the AWS or whatever. They should have been using UPS shipping for their dummies. It's like they're seven and ten. You're welcome. Like, my god. Oh, okay. I will I'll get off my soapbox, man. But you get it, and I have a feeling that our listeners that have at least been listening for more than you know, five minutes are on the same page as us. It's just it's so hard to take that stuff seriously, and it just clutters, it's just clutter. Get it out of there. I don't know. Anyway, I suppose what I want to talk about today is in relation to my LinkedIn rant and BS thought leadership, and the dog barked at me, and this is what taught me about B2B sales. Um, and I think the truth is that those individuals have nothing more on anybody else than the fact that they have Wi Fi access and chat GPT to help them just churn out some BS. But and this is interesting because it kind of came up multiple times throughout this week, like through different presentations I've heard or conversations with people, and it really Really brought to light that there is a growing sense, and just kind of forgive my my terms and I'll try to refine them a little bit, but there's this growing sense of misplaced narcissism, I feel like, in workplaces. And I'll I'll do my best to try to explain where I'm coming from. I think the idea that personal branding and having to demonstrate how fantastic you are at all times, so those thought leaders, right? Like I is genuinely overtaking professionalism. And I hope that makes sense, like where my brain's kind of going with that. And I will I'll do my best to kind of walk you through my my thought process as we continue on here. But just knowing that, like just based off of what I just said there, I'm curious, and I ran this by you earlier, but we didn't, I didn't actually have you like give me your full context. What do you think of that? Like, do you think it's like an actual societal shift? Is it am I reading into it? And I just I'm letting linked influencers just piss me off to a level I shouldn't. Like, what is happening? Does that what are your thoughts, man? I'll I'll shut up.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Do you realize how many professional influencers there are now? Yes. There's it's just so many, and anyone and everyone can be a thought leader and market themselves to be the best at their craft. Yeah. But I I fully admit, Steve, it's hard to sift through the bullshit at times because I don't always know who is being completely genuine. Yeah, there's just there's so much of it. And also, ads. There's way too many ads. I am not interested in whatever you're trying to sell me. And also, why do I have so many LinkedIn connections? Holy hell. Sorry, this got completely sidetracked, but I there's just all this stuff that I when I think of LinkedIn and influencers, it's there's so much. It's hard to feel that true, genuine connection. Kind of like you're talking about of like having to completely personally brand yourself or you want to be a thought leader because you have these really deep thoughts that you think might strike a chord with someone. I think it is it's it's too much.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yes, I that's an excellent way of putting it. And I think you honestly fulfilled the narrative way better than I did. Like, and I I I know I that term gets tossed around a lot, this idea of narcissism, right? Like, oh, they're a narcissist. Like, I feel like it is thrown around like a football. Like, it's but so I I I have to admit, I am currently in the throes of reading a book called Children of the Self-Absorbed. And it talks about how every single adult, there's a there's a section in there where it talks about every adult, all have bits of narcissism in us, and it's it's really not necessarily a bad thing. There's there's good, as they kind of label it, good narcissism, and there's bad narcissism. It's uh it's kind of the like a like a pendulum in a way, right? Having some narcissism with is what gives adults a sense of competition or an ability to push forward and like persevere because they feel like they have the ability to do so and perhaps to do better. Like when you apply for a job, you're doing so with a little bit of narcissism, right? Like, because you feel like you're the best candidate, and that's not a bad thing. That's that's a completely acceptable thing. When you use that narcissism in a healthy way, that's acceptable, it's societally acceptable. But when you use it as a tool to just like self-aggrandize or like it's benefiting only you at the expense of others, that's when it's negative. Like, so to your credit, Patrick, when you said this thing of like you can't suss out what is genuine and what is not, because there's so much noise, there's so much garbage out there. I would argue that is the negative narcissism pushing the good narcissism out. But if you really look at it as kind of just like the like a zero-sum game, if you will, like a zero to one hundred kind of a thing, it does make more sense. It's on a frequency. Sure. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

I would definitely agree that there are plenty of narcissists out there.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

And maybe maybe I maybe if I I haven't read that book or heard of it, maybe I'll get a different mindset. It before, just on my my uh my take at the moment, just thinking about this now. Yeah, I don't know if I if I love the idea of saying that we each have it in that sense of narcissism, because I do uh relate that to being a negative term, and I don't know if it was narcissists. I would say that because what narcissism is, again, it it reminds me of super annoying people who bring their arrogance either to the workplace or in their personal lives. Yeah. But I I like the term being self-assured of yourself. You have you have that confidence or a plum, being very sure of what you are saying, what you believe, that having that uh self-efficacy essentially. Yes, yes. And I think that's just another, maybe that's just another another way to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Yes, and I think that's extremely acceptable. Like if that term narcissism scares you, or it just it doesn't feel comfortable, then fine. I I think having that it's we're on the same page. Like what you're referencing as that self-assurance is really just you telling yourself that you're you're the best person for this specific role or this function, or you can do this in only a way that you can. That's not to say that you don't think others are capable, but in the moment, sure, you I I can certainly do that. That's no problem. Um, but I I do like where you're going with that. Like I so I I don't want to defeat your per your point because I think it's extremely valid.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Do you think then that I don't want to use the word majority, but that a good amount of people when they are trying to when they come off a little self-absorbed, or when they are trying to be those thought leaders, like do you think there's good intention behind it, or that they're so they're so wrapped up in their their little world that yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Um that's an excellent question. And I know I I instantly retorted with no, but um I think that's that's really unfair of me. Um, so I'm throwing every single one of these people into a bucket, and that's not fair. But I will say this. I think their intent originally may have started pure, but then it got overtaken. Like it's a that uh the kind of dopamine hits, if you will, like, wow, I I this many people look at this post. Like I think then it's no longer about your message, it's about how many people you can get to prescribe to your thought process. And and I think I do that specific case to me, anyway, feels negative. That is, it's no longer an altruistic message. You are you're trying to, I hate to say it in this way, but I'm going to, you're duping people. Like you're kind of grifting where that doesn't feel genuine. Because that's isn't that really the crux of what grifting is? Is that you're doing something to dupe someone. You're you're a snake oil salesman. Like, uh, yeah, I can totally fix that for you. Just buy this bridge I have over here. Wink. Like that's what you're doing. And I I do find it really interesting. I said earlier that I've I've kind of heard this a couple of times, and I I firmly believe that sometimes the universe just has a way of saying, hey, buddy, pay attention. And the fact that I've heard this at a minimum twice that I can recall. I I heard it once last week during Disrupt HR with um Dr. Tecla uh B. Ross when she covered the new smoke break and the addiction of social media and our phones, um, which interestingly, I I want to make sure I I point this out. Um, she is in fact a Dr. Uh Tecla B. Ross because she has a background in addiction. Like she she was talking to me about that. I thought that was fascinating. Um, so it gives her even more credit. But then the other thing I I heard this in was um during a mental health um event that I was at just yesterday, and the exact same same thing came up on how we're replacing social norms with screen norms. And I just I felt like these two things really coincided, especially with this blooming of these linked influencers and whatnot. I was like, oh my god, I need to talk about this because I can't be the only one that's seeing this, right? Like it's crazy. And and I'll I'll wrap up here really quickly. I think it's some of that addiction of those wants to have those the likes and the comments and whatnot is all about this willingness or this perceived, excuse me, this perceived need to be better, faster, stronger, smarter than you really may be, especially when it comes to the workplace. Like you're trying to pull the wool over the professional eyes. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

I no, I I think you're on to something there. And uh yeah, with going back to the our discussion last week, I think uh Tecla's message was phenomenal. Yeah, and I've I've already preached about this uh enough on here, but as far as just the whole focus thing about you know that this the new smoke break, it's true, and being someone, and I get I'm not an expert whatsoever, um, but just being new to the idea of this and having put this into practice of being able to step away from my phone, not having those notifications, not having as many apps. I have, I think, for myself done a fairly good job of eliminating that phone addiction technology, you know, like not relying on it so much. Is it perfect? No, I I still have some of the apps that I use on my phone, couple social media, and that that's partly is because I run a small business and I it's they purposely make the apps easier to use than the web versions. Oh, yeah, because that that's because they want you on your phone. And so I do I do keep those, but I don't have my notifications on. I am very direct on when I'm opening my phone and doing all that. But that's aside from that. Yeah, I do think overall that there's too much reliance on technology, not only in our personal lives, but in the workplace. Um mental health is affected, our focus is affected, as I've talked about before. Our posture is even affected. I mean, chiropractors are having field days with these people that literally have they call there's actual thing they call it, and I'm gonna I'm gonna screw this up, but it's like cell phone neck or something like that because people with with the way you're looking down at and it's I'm gonna look that up. That's wild, really. It's it's a it's a thing that I have heard about because of just the people hunching over and looking down at their phones. It's it's pretty wild. Now, Steve, this isn't a complete Oh gosh, hold on.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

I sorry, I just looked it up. Uh, you're right. Cell phone neck or tech neck.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Tech neck. That was that's the thing I'm thinking of.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Is a painful, often chronic strain injury caused by prolonged downward tilting of the head to look at mobile devices.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yep. Isn't that wild?

SPEAKER_00 35:29

It puts up to 60 pounds of pressure on the spine, resulting in neck pain, stiffness, and headaches. Holy hell, no way. I'm sorry. I you said that. I was like, no way, I gotta look this up. That's great. I'll I'll put that in the show notes. That's wow. I'm so sorry. Please continue. I won't hear that.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

And that's it's not a complete knock on technology because hell, I mean, TV's been around for 70 some years, right? And we're still okay with that. It's just that these little pocket devices that lead to the doom scrolling, the constant need to be quote unquote on. And that I not mean just being the device being on, but as you were relating to having to be on to be that snake oil salesman or to be always getting that dopamine hit of the likes, the comments, the even if you're saying something that's controversial, that's gonna give you even more of a little hit if you know that it's attracting attention.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

It's so well put about the on, right? Like you're there are individuals, and I bet anybody listening can probably pinpoint the folks they work with, and they can point out like that is one, like this person's one, this like yes, it is this constant need for self-fulfillment through others, yeah. Like, and it's weird, it's like they they don't want to spend the time honing their craft, so they try to get people to buy in that they know more than they do, and like I I you know what I'm gonna throw this out there. Um, boomers, you had it right. Like, you gotta sometimes put in your licks, like you need to build experience, especially when we're talking professionally. I I can't really speak into the personal side of things, but professionally speaking, you really do need to sometimes struggle and see things through in order to really garner a true understanding of things, and that comes with time, and that's it. Like it's just time. Experience is with time, and through that you gain skills and strength, and that's not to say that you can't get those things like skills and strength through um education classes. You certainly can, but Patrick, I think you're gonna agree with me on this, but I I'd love to hear your opinion otherwise. Um, the classroom as in like a college classroom is very different than the professional world. Very different, very different. Yeah, like you are talking apples-oranges comparison. And um it I one of the things that came up yesterday in the uh the mental health uh seminar that I went to is they talked about the the Dunning Krueger effect. And I've heard this before. Are you familiar?

SPEAKER_01 38:36

I've heard the name.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah, I don't I couldn't give you a response of what it is, but so it really, and if anybody thinks I'm making fun, I'm not. Um so I I'm gonna read it verbatim from Wikipedia, and that is uh the Dunning Kruger effect is a cognitive bias where individuals with low knowledge or competence in a domain overestimate their own expertise, often failing to recognize their incompetence. So if it helps uh anybody out there, um, this is Uncle Rico from the Napoleon Dynamo. Like I could throw a pig scene quarter mile. No, you can't. No, you can't, man. But we all know these people, they overestimate their own expertise. And as a matter of fact, yesterday when this was introduced, um, there was a poll, I think it was through Gallup, that was done on drivers across the entirety of the United States to rate like scale of one to ten, how good of a driver are you? Um, did you know that 90% of the drivers in the US are in the 50 plus percentile? Oh very which is which is impossible. Like, no, that is so if you have that friend that's like, I'm an excellent driver, and you're like, no, you're not. No, you're not. That is the Dunning Kruger in effect, folks. So if you want an idea of like how to understand it a bit more, that's a great way to just kind of self-apply that. Um, I bring this up, and I I will I will stop shortly here. I bring this up because I feel like it's this overestimation of expertise that's driving these linked influencers. I really sincerely believe that. And I'm not trying to say that they're stupid or that they don't know anything, but I think they're trying to make up for a lack of expertise or competence through manipulating people into thinking they have more than they actually do. So they are recognized as such.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Is that why on LinkedIn when you when they the uh the memes that they come up with and all that of like you took some certification or whatever, and then they like just completely make it sound so tremendous? There's yes, I've drawn a blank on like an example of one right now, but there's so many like I took a uh oh I I I passed a typing class and it was like executed the keyboard with such fine, you know, whatever, like just settled down here.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Yes, yeah, it's the it's the how do I bloat my resume?

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Yes, yeah. Um it's interesting to note about that uh Dunning Kruger effect that this occurs because they lack the metacognitive ability to recognize their own incompetence. I think that's hilarious. Um, often leading to that unwarranted overconfidence. Yeah, you know, sadly there are way too many people like this. I won't won't name names or groups of people, but there are. But I I would like to know, Steve, how do we build this up at the workplace? How do you get a not encouraging this, but how do you get people to stop trying to gloat to trying to be more confident so they can feel better about their work?

SPEAKER_00 42:16

So I'm gonna sound like a broken record, and folks out there, I clearly I don't know the answer. Like I I wish I did, but I really think there is something to authenticity and being genuine. And people have probably heard me say that so many times, they're like, oh my god, that's your catchphrase. But I I do, I genuinely believe that. I wholeheartedly believe that if you can just own your skill set, the things you're good at, the things you want to improve, just be authentic about those things, be real, be you. That's the way to tackle it. And I think just having the space available in the professional atmosphere to say, I don't know this, how can I learn this? Because folks, everybody that's listening right now, you yourself or the individuals that you surround yourself with, at one point in time, you had to start from scratch, and so did they. Your most accomplished CEOs, your great amazing public speakers, they all had to start somewhere and they all had to learn somewhere. And over time, yes, they built skills and they failed and they picked themselves back up and they try new things, but they're constantly refining themselves. Something I've personally noticed, and I'm curious if you have also, Patrick, that in our profession, because we are learning and development, right? Like we're all about learning, we're all about that growth. The people that I interact with, that I network with, that I talk to at conferences or you know, group functions, the people that are the best at something are the ones that rarely speak up about it. Meaning, like, they're not the ones that are pointing fingers at themselves, being like, I'm the only one that knows this answer. They're almost always humble about it. Like, well, this has worked for me. And I could I could see it working for you too. Like, there's this humility to it, but they're they're authentic and they're sincere, and you can tell. There being those things.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

That's uh that's I think strong emotional intelligence right there is being having cultural, having that humility, whether it's culturally or not, have having that confidence without having to get up there and say, Oh, I've done this, and run down their laundry list of resume accomplishments.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

And I I think though, to you know, to go off what you were saying though, I I think it starts with having self-awareness. You talk about yes, the the uh the authenticity, but I think that has to start with people learning to recognize their own limitations and be comfortable with the reality that they may not know everything there is to know about a particular subject or a job task. Authenticity is only gonna start to show itself if there's something or someone to model that after. So for example, my workplace, we we do plug authenticity all the time. It's always uh you can be your authentic self here, and we're a huge, huge organization. I typically will tell people that same phrase, but I will say what you're comfortable with. We want you to be fully your fully authentic selves, but let's say you're you only want to be 90% or 80% here. Have that confidence to be able to bring yourself to work like that. That goes with admitting mistakes, asking questions, saying, I'm not sure what you what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Rather than just saying, Oh, oh, I'll figure it out later, or oh my god, yes. Guessing, right? I mean, it think about it. Think about an interview. If Steve, if if we're in an interview and you ask me a question about a job task, and I I don't know what that acronym was, or I don't know how you rather than just spouting off some BS, I would say I'm I'm really I apologize. Could could you explain that a little further? I'm yeah, I don't quite understand your question. Yeah, maybe then you can rephrase, and you might be thinking, Oh my gosh, yeah, I just totally use some jargon that of course he won't know he doesn't work here. So you help explain it a little bit more so having that self-awareness again, going back to that point of not having to be perfect. Workplaces need to be a safe space to make those mistakes, to learn on the job, and going back to what we were talking about earlier, not having a bunch of individuals being narcissistic or micromanagers that make people feel bad or have to that someone's always looking over their shoulder.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Yeah. And and really, what is a micromanager more than somebody that just doesn't feel confident in their own skills?

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

Like, I mean, sincerely, I like that is that is the hallmark of a micromanager. They feel like they don't have the control, so they exert their own form of control over everybody else. So true. And I've worked for micromanagers, that's how I know. Um, and it's it's frustrating. Like it is, it's genuinely frustrating. Like, why do you have me in this role if you don't trust me to do it? Trust me to do it. Like, just step away, right? Um, but I really think you hit on a very important aspect to this that I did not touch on. So thank you. And that is this, yes, this idea of authenticity, of course, but the ability to admit when you do or you do not know something. I can't express this enough. When I would teach uh field trainers or like sales trainers, when I would work with these individuals, the first question I would ask them, if they were with a a new hire, the first question I would ask that trainer is, did they ask questions? And if they said no, to me, that's a red flag. Like they are either not paying attention or they don't care, or they don't feel like they can they can be wrong. And that's scary because everybody, especially when you're starting a brand new job, everybody should have questions. When I would get when I would get field trainers to come back, and I would ask the same question. Did they ask questions? And they were like, oh my gosh. Um, like all of them. I knew, as funny as it sounds, I knew I'm like, oh, that they're a good one. And I kid you not, I had a proven track record of these people excelling wildly. Like the more questions you asked was in direct correlation to your success on the job. It was bonkers. Like I had graphs and like data to back that up so hard because they were they were themselves. They were genuine, they they knew what they knew, they knew what they didn't know. And sometimes what would happen is they would ask these questions and then come to the realization of, you know, actually, this job's not for me. Okay, that fine, we get it. That's cool, dude. Okay, let's get you somewhere that you fit. And maybe it's not with this organization, but we're gonna find somebody else to fill this role then. Like, just be open, just be open and say those things. Don't be afraid to ask those questions. Man, I oh, you said that, and my head, like, you can't see inside like the the cavernous hole in my brain here. But like it just was lighting up. I'm like, holy god, yes. Ask, ask, ask.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

I should have I should have asked more questions before agreeing to do this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

You know, Patrick. I don't know if this is for you.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Maybe this uh fate, a fate, we have a face for podcasting, that's all I know.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

Yep, yep. Face made for radio, podcasting, and nobody's eyes. Yes. Well, Patrick. Yes. Do you know who is a thought leader I will always connect with on LinkedIn? Spinnerouski. The spinneroski! Wow, anyway. Uh, you are right, Mr. Patrick. It is indeed the spinneruski. And while Mr. Patrick fires up that wheel, this is a reminder for all of our listeners out there. Each episode we spin the spinneruski, a wheel of names that might belong to a woman who so generously shoved Mr. Patrick and I into the ugly club all those years ago. And the goal of this, of course, is to eventually land on her name so we can thank her properly. Alright, Mr. Patrick. We ready to rumble? We ready to spin that rooski?

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Yep. Just uh warming up my arm.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

Yeah, yeah, warm that up, yes. Yes, warm up your arm, make sure you have the gloves on where you don't need any splinters. Nope. Okay, I'm ready. Alright. Spin that rooskey.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Oh my gosh, this is awesome. Cleo.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

Like like Miss? Miss Cleo? I bet she knew we were gonna call her name today.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

I think so. Oh my gosh! She's still alive? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

It's Cleo. I don't know. I think she might be in prison. Anyway, Cleo! Wow, Cleo. Thank you so much for everything that you have given us and for all of the um prophecies you have helped. Uh you've you've shined lights on. Uh, for some of our younger listeners, I am referencing a person named Miss Cleo, who was a fortune teller that you could pay like five dollars a minute uh by calling a 1-900 number, and I know shockingly, it was a scam. I I know, folks, crazy. But I have a feeling Miss Cleo was not the one that was at Boomers that night, but it could have been a Cleo. And if it was a Cleo, thank you, Cleo. You are forever in our debt.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

And uh Miss Cleo passed away in 2016.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

So oh, all right, I said that incorrectly. We are forever indebted to you. That's what I meant to say. But she passed away in 2016. I bet she didn't see that coming. Oh God, wow. All right, well, I don't feel I don't even feel good about that one. No, no. Um all right, let's let's let's continue forward here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

You want to do some shout-outs?

SPEAKER_01 53:54

My shout-out goes to Miss Cleo. No. My shout-out this week, Steve, is to Sir David Attenborough, who turns 100 on May 8th tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

No way! As of recording.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

What? When this comes out, everyone, it'll be past his birthday, but he turns 100 on May 8th.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Holy geez, okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

He has lived an incredible life, and he's he's one of my nature guy heroes. Uh, such a legend. Yeah. The first time I saw Planet Earth was such a game changer for me, and I really love his work. I started paying attention, uh, more attention to the world around us after seeing some of his documentaries. So I want to say, happy birthday, Sir David, if you somehow are listening to Grossly Competent.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

I I don't even think it's a question. He is clearly listening to us. He is clearly listening. Um, well, I I'm I have a two-parter for my show. Okay. So uh Sir David Attenborough, happy birthday. And I would also like to add that it is my son's birthday tomorrow. And he turns um one tenth of Sir David Attenborough's age. So he is officially double digits. He will be tomorrow. So by the time you're listening, he will be a 10-year-old. So um happy birthday, Huckster, and you know I love you. Um, my my other shout-out, my more professional shout-out, goes out to Spencer Jones. Uh, he is the founder of Jones and For, which I just love that name. I thought that was awesome. So I I mentioned yesterday, excuse me, that I went to this uh conference sponsored by the Mental Health America Lakeshore organization. And I it was great, it was awesome. And I happened to meet him at like the our little luncheon hour, and he just he came, sat right next to me, and he's like, Hey, let's just chat. And sure enough, we did we were supposed to, we were supposed to meet new people and talk during our our lunch hour or whatever, and um, what a fascinating guy. So like we had a really great talk, and I just have to say that between Spencer in this case or Sarah Valentine, who we had on a couple of episodes ago, or if it's Linnell or Jess, or like Jen Mar, who we talked about last week, like there's all these people that I feel like when you talk to them, it just makes you want to be the best version of yourself that you can, right? Like they're they have this uplifting quality to them. So that's why I want to call out Spencer. He was a great guy, a really fun conversationalist. So um, folks, do yourself a favor. You gotta go check him out. His website is We Are Jonesin'4, and I'll put it in the show notes. It's weare JonesIn4 F O R.com. So give him a give him a little look see. But awesome dude, really awesome dude.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Yeah, it was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 57:11

Said well done.

SPEAKER_00 57:12

Well, do you have anything else you want to add before we adjourn, good sir?

SPEAKER_01 57:17

No, I'm gonna uh go post on LinkedIn about how recording this episode reminded me of B2B Sales.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that sounds good. Sounds good. If you end up with one less connection, just so yeah, next time on Grossly Competent, we're gonna talk about how to delete your LinkedIn. No, I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

I would never be your solo host, Steve Counsel.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

So I just as an aside, I don't think we're ever gonna be sponsored by LinkedIn, but um boy, we've tried. We've really, really tried. Wink. No. All right, guys. That that's it for this episode, you ugos out there. Uh, thanks again for coming along on this adventure, and we will uh suppose we'll see you next time, hey. You got it.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

Ugly, we got that last part pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

That was pretty good. Jesus, like man. I I felt like you were staring into my eyes. Which is interesting because when I look, so the camera is here, right? I'm poking at it right now. Um, but in order for me to look at you, you're on the right hand side of my screen, so I have you. So that if it ever looks like I'm not making eye contact, I'm actually making eye contact with you in the camera. But shoot, I forgot what I was gonna tell you though. It was uh I learned something, and uh Oh it was it was great. Um, I feel like a new person and I feel like I've achieved something I never have in my life. No, first time first time here, first timer here. First time learner, long time non learner learner.