Grossly Competent
Join Steve Counsell and Patrick Aleshire, your faithful - yet hideous - hosts as they share their love of Learning, Adulting, and all that is absurd in their world. If you like learning about careers, adult education, or listening to embarrassing stories from ugly people, look no further!
Come for the chat, stay for the laughs, and run from their faces: they're Grossly Competent.
Grossly Competent
Building Presentation(s) Competently
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In this episode of Grossly Competent, hosts Steve and Patrick are back in full force after a small hiatus to enjoy the finer things of Spring Break and professional webinars. Speaking of which, Patrick provides a fantastic overview of some solid 'Do's and Don'ts' of Professional Presentations, thanks to friend of the show* Gregory Tall. Learn tricks of the trade, avoid faux pas, and immerse yourself in the methods of building a proper presentation that is sure to wow your audience.
Before that, Steve gives his unprompted review of the trending chain Buc-ee's and which involves some serious hot sauce recommendations. Patrick fumbles over his words like a madman, learns how to speak like Jason Statham, and provides a burn so brutal that Steve is still recovering in the school Nurse's Office.
(*We like him and he is friendly, therefore he is a friend to the show. Semantics, I know. - Steve)
Here are some links to dive into:
- Gregory Tall - the man, the myth, the legend
- Kevin Pollack demonstrates how to speak Statham (NSFW)
- Buc-ee's (in case you've been living under a rock)
- Kwik Trip, for the uninitiated
Come for the chat, stay for the laughs, and run from our faces: we're Grossly Competent!
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Hello and welcome to Grossly Competent, the Learning, Development, and Adulting podcast that does not claim to be pretty, but we will happily pretend to be slightly competent. I'm your host, Steve Countl, and I'm joined by my co-host, a man that always outruns being attractive, Mr. Patrick Ailshire.
SPEAKER_00Dr. Culinary, wow, I can't talk. That was like three words at one. Whoa! Okay. Let's try it again. Dr. Cornelius. It's good to see you. My mind was like two insults ahead of itself, and I did not get that out correctly. It's good to see you. Good to see you, Steven. Now that sounded like something you've been workshopping for a while.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00We may need to explore what that says about you in a future episode.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh you know your smash together that you just did. Oh man, I'm drawing such a blank. There, there's a comedian that uh I I I saw like a snippet, uh, I don't know, it was probably on Reddit or something like that, where he is really good at impersonations. I you know what, I will put it in the show notes. I will find this clip and put it in the show notes. It's funny. Um, but this specific comedian, he does a really good Jason Statham. Okay, and there he was he was giving like a little bit of an educational course on how do you speak like Jason Statham? And he's like, Well, you take like 10 syllables and you make it one. And he's like, for example, most people would say, like, what do you mean? And Jason Satham says, Jimmy. That's good. My god, it actually, and like I'm not doing it the justice it deserves, but when this guy does it, it's it sounds like if you close your eyes, like, oh, it's Jason Satham. But it's funny. I sorry, I didn't mean to completely hijack that, but uh, you are right. I did um I did workshop that intro for a little bit. I feel like I've I've hit a dry spell. I I need to I need to get back into my groove. Oil up the mask.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
unknownOil up the mask.
SPEAKER_03Well, folks, uh, we have a humdinger of an episode, and this one is 100% brought to you by Mr. Patrick Ailshire. So uh he took full responsibility. I'm just along for the ride this week. But before we dive into that, listener land needs to know who is our sponsor of the week.
SPEAKER_00Today's show is sponsored by lying down for a second. It wasn't an app, it became an app. Lying down for a second. Time travel but disappointing.
SPEAKER_03Wow, thanks, big lying down for a second. You know, it's funny that you say the well, not you, our sponsor mentions this idea of time travel. Um, because we used that um as kind of bribery for my kids when we were traveling on spring break. That if you sleep in the car, it's like time travel.
SPEAKER_00Ooh.
SPEAKER_02Oh, heck yeah, that was great.
SPEAKER_00Heck yeah. That's uh well, it's it's uh funny you say that because I do that when I'm driving.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, sometimes I get really nervous when I'm driving, I just close my eyes because I don't want to see what's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00So I get it. No. Like our sponsor says, just for a second. It wasn't a nap.
SPEAKER_03Oh no, officer, it wasn't a nap. It was like a smidge. No, don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_00Well, Steve, we're back. Yeah, we are, man. It's awesome. Uh, it feels like it's been a while. You know, how was your uh break of spring?
SPEAKER_03Hmm. Um, it it it really does feel like it's been a hot minute, right? Like I think you and I have said this before, where uh if we don't record on a weekly basis, or like we're not consistent, like maybe we have to switch the day or something like that. It feels like an eternity. Like it's so weird. Like I have to like dust the cobwebs off or something. Um, but it is, it's really nice to be back, man. And uh to answer your question, uh, dude, spring break was great, it was awesome. Uh, my family and I had the opportunity to go to Gulf Shores, Alabama, and experience all that that city has to offer. Um, and uh my kids got to experience the uh beach and the ocean in a way they have not before. We've been to the Florida Keys, which is wonderful, love that, but this is a bit different where it's it's really you have that coastal beach and you get the waves and you can play around in them. My kids loved it, and I I have to give credit where it's due. The car ride was brutal, but uh my kids and and my wife, like they were amazing. Like I was so impressed by my kids, it was wild to me.
SPEAKER_00That's incredible. Um I'm gonna let me just think for a minute here. I'm gonna take a line from steal a line from Christmas Vacation. I know I'm kind of going off this seems off topic for spring, but something uh just a quick line came into my head. Uh it's from the character played by Sam McMurray, who was Clark uh who plays Clark's coworker Bill in the office. Okay? In the office in Christmas Vacation. That's his name?
SPEAKER_03He's like the nicest guy in the whole movie.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So when Clark shares to Bill that he's going to put in a pool with the Christmas bonus, Bill says the phrase.
SPEAKER_03I know exactly what you're gonna say, but I've I don't yeah.
SPEAKER_00You're the last true family man. Yes. That's how I'm responding to what you just told me that you took a 17-hour car ride with your family. Because I remember doing that when I was little, but I couldn't fathom doing that today. It just blows my mind. You know?
SPEAKER_03Uh doing it in the modern era is way nicer than when we were kids. Uh because there's these things called tablets. Uh game changer, man.
SPEAKER_00Stone tablets?
SPEAKER_03Uh no, that's what we had. We had stone tablets because my kids always like to remind me of my age and always ask me, like, I think it was maybe a year or two ago. My daughter, who is seven, at the time she would have been like five, asked me, um, in the olden days, meaning like when I was a kid, uh, did they have school? Uh yeah. Yep, they did. You know what else they did.
SPEAKER_00Why didn't you go, Dad?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, I walked into that. Oh wow. Oh, praise me. Yeah, all right. Oh my god, wow. Can you tell? Patrick hasn't seen me for a while. He's he's got a week and a half of pent-up aggression. Like, oh jeez.
SPEAKER_03But uh, no, uh, as far as the car ride, I mean, for for the driver, me, uh, yeah, it's rough. Uh, I'm not gonna lie to you. But uh, not all is lost in the car ride because I did get to experience a little place by the name of Bucky's.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if you're familiar with it. Oh, I am familiar. I have not been, but I am familiar, and I've heard some things.
SPEAKER_03Let me give you my impromptu review of Bucky's. Okay. Uh, the place is an absolute chaos factory. It is, it's it's so it's really neat. Like it's it's uh it is a spectacle to behold. Like it is just crazy how big it is, and there's like 120 pumps. Like, I mean, it's it is a modern Marvel. Like, whoa, what is this place? But if you think for a second you're gonna just in and out that place, like I'll go in for 10 minutes, no way. You are so wrong. Um, I actually went twice on this specific trip. Um, the first was on our way down, and the the second time was on our way back up. So the first time I went there was on our way down at roughly like um, I think it was like 10 or 11 in the morning on a Saturday. Yes. It was on a so that probably is a contributing factor, like don't get me wrong. Uh and that place was I'm really trying to choose my words like to not say naughty ones to get flagged by Apple. Um the place was an absolute madhouse. Like think like Costco on like the days leading up to Thanksgiving or Christmas, but everything is half off. Oh it's just like an ocean of people. So to me, and I think I've brought this up in previous episodes, that is not my bag.
SPEAKER_02I hate that.
SPEAKER_03So that was not enjoyable to me, but I did decide I something caught my eye. A little bottle about six inches tall uh of hot sauce. I was like, ooh, of course, let me see what hot sauces they have, because I love hot sauce, and they have dirt cheap hot sauce. Like, I can get a couple of these, they're like three bucks a piece. Like, sure. What's the worst? It's bad, okay. I throw it out. Uh nope, they're awesome. They're awesome. So uh yeah, so that is yeah, uh, it was just crazy, just crazy.
SPEAKER_00I've definitely obviously heard of Bucky's, and the big deal is that they're supposed to be building one in Wisconsin. Is that still going forward? As far as I know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. So for non-Wisconsinites, Oak Creek is a uh a city it towards like the southern border of Wisconsin leading into um it's about uh 20 uh 25 minutes south of Milwaukee, we'll say. Yeah, that's probably about right. Yeah, um, yeah, if you're familiar with uh like the uh cities of like Racine or Kenosha, it's near those areas. I'm sorry, I interrupted yes.
SPEAKER_00Yep, yep, absolutely. So I guess my question for you, I don't know if you know the answer to this, but what do Quick Trip enthusiasts say about Buckeys? Because in Wisconsin, especially, Quick Trip is like the gold standard. And you know, um I doubt down to Alabama though would have included a stop at Bucky's, so I guess I'm happy that you were able to stop in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00A little crowded sounds like, but just like the lines at the airport would have been.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Oh my gosh, maybe. You know, weirdly, lines to check out went really fast. And like that was so I that is something I will give them massive credit for. Like, they have a system, it's just crazy. Like the the place is just a zoo. Um, however, right now I'm gonna give you the alternate side of this, and that is on our way back home. So we left Gulf Shores at the ripe time of 3 a.m. just so we could make the 17-18 hour trek so I could sleep in my own bed. Because uh after that, I wanted to hard. So uh this guy did lots of driving. But when we reached the the same Buckies that we originally came to, um we reached there on our way leading to home at like 3 30, 3 45 in the morning, and predictably and thankfully, that place was so dead, and that was just fantastic. It was great. Like, we had the whole store to ourselves, it was just magnificent. Um, I got a breakfast sandwich that like rocked my world. I ended up buying 15 hot sauce bottles. Oh my god. Like, it was awesome, it was so great. Um, and we definitely got uh, I don't know, three or four bags of their beaver nuggets, which that's a that's a name. That is a name, but it is they're related to we talk about that on the air, or is that uh I won't lie, when I first saw the name, I'm like, oh my gosh, you're really you're really asking me to, huh? But um, no, they are beaver nuggets because Bucky's the mascot is a beaver. And it's basically like this like crisped caramel corn. I don't know how else to explain it, but it is insanely good. Um, but uh the other thing I will mention is that the place is wildly clean, like everywhere, the bathroom, everything, it's just super clean. So um, in my very unwarranted and unprompted assessment, um, Bucky's overall gets a seven out of ten, but it's only because of the crowds, and I know they can't necessarily help that because of just the um kind of excitement factor of ooh, Buckeys. Um, but if we're talking about three to four a.m. Bucky's, that place gets like a 12 out of 10. Like I would go, I would wake up at 3 in the morning every time if I wanted to go to Buckeys, just so I could get there when nobody else is there. So there it is. That's my assessment. Boom. I don't know. I'm sorry, I feel like I zinged past your original question. I have no idea what Quick Trip enthusiasts feel about Buckeys. Um, for those of you that are non-Wisconsin natives, you might know Quick Trip. I think they also have like Quick Star is uh no, I'm pretty sure. Like that's uh like that's like an affiliate of Quick Trip. Okay, um, but it's you see them in different states. There's a couple other um like affiliate names, but they're all really kind of the same thing. It's just uh think of a smaller scale Bucky's. Um, I don't know, because they really do serve similar purposes, except Buckys just takes it to such a higher level, like it's it is like a department store. Like you can buy shirts and you could buy uh you can buy a grill there. I saw that you could buy grills, like that's just crazy. Yeah, absolutely crazy.
SPEAKER_00So uh Quick Trip does is Quick Trips again much, much smaller. It's more of a gas station, but they can they have food there and typical gas station. But the I like it that majority of them are all laid out the same way, very similarly for the most part. And they are they are their bathrooms are crystal clean. So that's another cool thing about the Quick Trip. You kind of know what you're gonna get. They have some coffee and um obviously food and stuff too, but I know these is like on steroids. But yes, it is quick trip on steroids. Yep. I'm thinking now that maybe their marketing should be, you know, that whole 7 out of 10, 12 out of 10 at 3 a.m. Because I feel that's how similar how our our listeners feel about our podcast. You know, we're we're typically a seven out of ten normally, but you know, if you're if you're having trouble falling asleep and you happen to be up at 3 a.m., throw on some grossly competent, and it is a 12 out of 10 listening experience as you fall asleep listening to us.
SPEAKER_03We will lull you into sleep with our smooth, nasally Wisconsin accents, baby.
SPEAKER_00It's like the quiet storm. Quiet storm used to be on local radio. Love it.
SPEAKER_03That is awesome. Well, I'm sorry, I feel like I just spoke a whole ton. I think we're kind of running late so far on our time. Do we want to just dive into our topic of the week? Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00You know, while you were away having fun down in Gulf Shores, I was actually getting paid to do my job. And while I was getting paid to do my job, I attended a very good webinar on building presentations. And nope, I don't mean that was about towers and structures. I wasn't about building presentations. It was about building presentations, about how to put together a fantastic I'll be here all week, a fantastic presentation for your course content. And it was facilitated by one of my favorites, and probably yours, Mr. Gregory Tall.
SPEAKER_03Nice! Yeah, yeah, he's he's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Well, I don't think it would be right of me to go over everything that he shared with us, just because this obviously that's his his uh presentation. I thought it would take away some nuggets, things that he talked about that would be fun to chat about uh regarding what makes a good presentation in your eyes, and maybe what doesn't.
SPEAKER_03That that sounds awesome. Yeah, Gregory Tall is great. Um, I I I've only caught bits and pieces of things of his, but everything I do come across, I really enjoy him a lot. I I like his demeanor, um, I like his approach. Uh that's awesome that you got the opportunity. I remember getting the email for that specific event. It was uh and it really kind of caught my eye. Well, yeah, the title, excuse me, specifically, because it was something like I saw 300 slides presented in 90 minutes, and it was dot dot dot. And in my head, I'm like, terrible, like duh, but uh the catch was no, it was great, and every fiber of my being was like, no, there's there's absolutely no possible way, sure. Because I think we've talked about this on the show. I I loathe death by PowerPoint, I hate it like so much. So I'm really looking forward to this because I want to hear, I wasn't able to participate, like you said, I was too busy lollygagging in the Alabama sun. Um, so I want to hear like what did he without plagiarizing the daylights out of what he did, but like what was what were your takeaways? What were some of the cool things that he did mention?
SPEAKER_00So and yeah, going back to your initial uh statement there about yeah, how he said he had a pre he went he has seen a presentation that was like so hundreds of slides, right? But it was actually very good because the facilitator stuck to kind of the a good method to basically go through those to keep the audience engaged, and it wasn't in which we'll talk about some of the things here. So uh a common complaint in the facilitator world that you kind of brought up, Steve, before is that sometimes there's just too much stuff on a slide. Yeah, whether it's PowerPoint, articulate, whatever you're using. And one of the tips that Greg offered was a 1-3-10 principle, which is having just one idea per slide. Now three seconds per slide, and let me I'll explain that in a second, and then max ten words per slide. Okay. So the idea of one slide. So if let's say, for example, I'm just giving you an overview of my company, okay? And I want to talk about our mission, our vision, and our values. I don't want to do all three of those on one slide. Stick to just one part of that. So it's here's the mission. Talk about that next slide. Vision, etc. Okay. So the uh so that the one idea per slide uh makes sense. The going to the 10 max words per slide is because once you're Yeah, once the facilitator uh once the a participant is reading the slide, right? You want them to read quickly and then get back to you, right? Yes. So the idea then of the three seconds per slide kind of ties into that max 10. So I can already hear people screaming saying a new slide every three seconds, but that's not what I mean. I mean three seconds per slide means the amount of time you want your audience looking at the slide. Then they should turn their attention back to you, the facilitator.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So, as was said during this webinar, do you want your audience reading your slides or listening to you?
SPEAKER_03Oh my God, yes. And the funny thing is, is I've said those words. Like when I'm coaching somebody on like how to build a good presentation or anything like, or if I am given a presentation and I have to revamp it and you know cut and splice, and I I understand it's very difficult to watch somebody just take a red pen basically to your work, like nope, nope, nope, x cross, take this slide out, move this here. I understand that's difficult, but there is a method to the madness, and that is the more time somebody's reading your slide, they're not actually paying attention to you. And you know, I feel like we we kind of covered something similar to this in a previous episode because I remember you explicitly saying something along the lines of somebody was reading the slide, and because they were doing that, or they were only able to focus on one thing at a time. Sure, that's what I think it was multi-talking. Yeah, that's yes, I knew I'd get there eventually. Um, so that's awesome. Um, yeah, I I love what he has to say because and I think PowerPoint, because it's so ubiquitous with presentations, like I mean, high school students use ever crying out loud. Not that that makes it good or bad, it's just it's a very easy tool to use. And because of that, I think people get complacent with it being a aid tool, not the whole presentation itself, right? Because and I think to Gregory's comment of do you want your audience reading the slides or listening to you, if they're just reading the slides, why don't you just print the entire thing off and send it in an email? Because that's all you're doing, you're just kind of giving them a book, like here you go, and then they're reading it, and that's fine, they can take their own time and read it at their leisure. But that is yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you're to that point though, right there, too. That's and it was something that was brought up in this webinar, too. And it's something that some places I've worked, uh, currently where I'm at now, uh some of us are guilty of doing this as far as printing off the uh the with PowerPoint. Most of you probably know this. If you've ever tried to print off slides, the only way you can give your audience room to write some notes is by doing three slides per page. And what Gregory said, which is I totally agree with just something that we've done at work, just because it's like we've it's like we've always kind of done it this way. Give the audience something to write with. And he goes, It's terrible. No one can see the slides when you're printing, and which is true. And so I love his point, and I'm gonna start doing going away from that now, is that like it was a good kind of like kick in the butt reminder, like, oh yeah, because he said again, they're reading if they're trying to like see what's on that piece of paper and they're taking notes, they're not necessarily following along what you're saying, anyways. And so you can have a packet in which we do this in some of our leadership courses. Yeah, we don't necessarily just give the slides, we have a um a packet of like handouts. So these are it's gonna say, hey, this is an important part of the presentation. Please turn to page six and you'll see yes, this. And so that's where he goes, that's where you can get the engagement that way. And then he goes, what I always do afterwards, if someone says, Hey, I'd love a copy of those slides, I will then share them after the presentation. But he goes, just the way that it's it works now is like it just doesn't make sense to try to print those mini, many slides because people can't see them anyways.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it it's it's definitely something I know I personally struggle with all the time. I do the three slides with the you know four or five lines they can write on. Like I definitely do it. Um, however, I will say I'm a massive minimalist when it comes to my presentations, like insanely so. Where you said that like you have 10 words on the screen, like that is what I do. Like, I will actually refine a statement constantly until I get to like six or seven words, like and it's just bullets, like dun, dun, dun, like just whatever the topic happens to be, I'll have that. So it is somewhat visible now. When you get into charts and stuff, uh yeah, yeah, that that gets really crummy. And I I I guess it's kind of the pick your poisons thing, right?
SPEAKER_00I would guess though that I think a lot of presenters though that maybe still do have they're just out of habit or sure lack of really uh wherewithal that they do have a lot of stuff on their slide because maybe they just don't know the topic as well as, and I'll say as well as they they could, maybe they should or they want to. They're not there yet. And I've been guilty in the past in my earlier years, just because again, it was a tool for me to be able to kind of maybe look back or look if I've got TVs in front of me and behind the audience, I can at least look up and kind of see what I'm gonna be talking about. Yeah. Um, you know, I think admittedly, too, when I when I don't am not as comfortable, that's where some of my slides have a little bit more versus those topics that I'm really I know really well and I'm comfortable with where I can just keep it to like the bare minimum. Because then I want them to look at me and to participate, get into those breakout sessions versus just having to read off the script all the time.
SPEAKER_03Totally agree with you. And I I would show me somebody that presents for a living or has had it a part of their professional career. Show me the person that has never had a novel on a slide, and I will I will sell you the best bridge I can find. Like we're all guilties, and they sell them, you know, buy the dozen, whatever. But uh, we're all guilty of it. We've all had that, I would say that growing pain. And um, I kind of said this somewhat with not the same words earlier, and that is um PowerPoint and all of its ilk, like all the different varieties, they are visual aids, just like when you were in grade school and you had to have like that trifold board, right? Like it's a visual aid, it's just there to aid the presentation. But I think because of it being such a user-friendly system, it gets switched into being a crutch. And for those that don't feel confident speaking in front of groups, whether they know the information or not, yeah, they use it as that crutch. And that's not to say that they're I'm demeaning them, because uh there's times you do need to reference your material, like, oh, that's right, that's where I need to be. But it should be that quick glance off the side of your eye, and it's like, oh, that's right, that's where I'm at. Or if you lose track of where you are, which is totally fine. That's okay. You're not a bad facilitator because you have to do that. Everybody runs into that. I hell, every time I present, I there's a moment where I have to kind of just like corner my eye, see it, and it's like, oh, that's right, that's where we are. And then I'm able to venture forward and and go from there. That's totally acceptable.
SPEAKER_00Uh, and speaking to that as well, another point that was made was bigger is better. So let's say you're not able to read your slides, or the audience isn't able to read your slides. And he made a Greg made a good point of no matter what size room you're in, or what size audience you have, your audience should not be squinting to see the words or that picture or that graph. And I love the example he used here. So you may have heard a facilitator, maybe you said it yourself. I know you can't really see this because it's either blurry or it's too small from back of the room. I in the back room, I can know you can't see this. Uh, he said it's actually it made him think of him adding, uh, I know you can't see it, is basically similar to I know you can't hear me, as if the facilitator would start whispering the information. Like it's good like if he's like I'm gonna start talking really quiet now. I know you can't hear me, but like then what what would be the point of you talking that quietly if your audience can't hear what you're saying?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's an act. That's awesome. Uh you're right, man. I've totally said that phrase. I know I have, like a hundred percent. And depending upon the size of the room, you could have the biggest dang words on the planet, and it's like, well, I know you can't see that. I'm sorry. Like, you're far away, and that doesn't make it right or wrong. Um, but yeah, it I've I'm totally guilty. Um, now I'm curious, uh, because I've run into this um probably in the last couple of years, anyway, where the technology and the clarity of like a laptop is somewhat outpacing the um like what you're you're projecting. Yeah. And I excuse me, I say that because there's been times that as I'm making a presentation and I have a really nice visual aid, like a nice visual for people to see, and it looks crystal clear on my pre like every it looks totally clear. It prints clear, it looks clear, but then in the actual time I'm presenting it and it pops up on the screen, it's blurry. Like, are you are you kidding me right now? Are you joking?
SPEAKER_02Like, that's not fair.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I uh interestingly enough, I think it was I think it was about a month and a half ago. Yeah, I was I was giving a presentation, I had a slide up on the screen, and yeah, there was part of it that was blurry. I was like, what? And I looked back at my like at my laptop, totally clear, like, well, that's really odd. But the funny thing is, is the context of the slide was specifically talking about how um conflict can be blurry. Like the lines can be blurred in like what does this do to this do? Like, and it was like I didn't even connect it. That's the funny thing. Normally I would be pretty like quick to do that, but uh one of the audience members was like, Oh, I see what you did there. You made it blurry because the lines are blurred. I'm like, Yeah, I sure did. But then I came clean. I'm like, no, I didn't. This is just error on the projection. I don't know how to fix that. Um so yeah, that's kind of interesting though, but a valid point by Gregory Tall. Like, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I think in that instance, though, I mean, uh I guess if it's at, I don't know, if it's sitting your employer and it's like just uh you know people or whatever, like uh okay, like how how far would I go to like make sure it's gonna work or whatever. But I think uh professionals that are going out into keynote speaking, I'm sure they probably are testing that ahead of time, just you don't because I think it is part of it too, is maybe the you know, maybe the TV is still a UHF or whatever it's not, the HD, you know, that you're projecting on. Yeah. But like, but also I think it's when you magnify something like that, it's just the pixelation that just gets, you know. So I think like in in if Greg were to say that he would say like you you want to probably make sure that it's a a good clear picture. So again, it isn't fuzzy or grainy or whatever. Yeah, um, but he made it, he did a really good example uh activity basically showing us font sizes. This is what on you like a on like a laptop screen. Okay, so this is what font size 20 looks like, this is what font size 50 looks like, this is font size 200. So you can start to judge a little bit because he's saying, well, on your laptop it looks fine, but hey, at the back of the room, can someone see that if they're if it's font size 24? It looks good to you, but yeah, you know, so I was like, oh yeah, maybe like maybe I should bigger is better, maybe I should go up a little, and which again, when you're only having 10 or less words on a screen, that's probably fine because it's all you're gonna be able to fit if you're doing yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, that's that's awesome, and then it's a valid point, it's something to keep in the back of your mind. When you're a facilitator, it's not about you, it's about your audience and making it as accessible to them as possible, right? Like that's the whole point. You are there to facilitate their education and their learning and their growth. They can't do that if you're not giving them the proper tools. So that's that's really great. I love that he was able to put that into such a great context. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00And the last one I want to share, Steve, is this one was like he was. I feel like, and I don't know how many people were on this webinar, you couldn't really tell the numbers, but there was at least from like comments and stuff going on. I I imagine there was a let's say minimum, a minimum 30 some people, okay? Sure. Probably was a lot more because he's got like people from all over. But uh it was I feel like he was directly talking to me when he addressed this one. He said, let's make sure that we're using picks that pop. So basically, that was kind of his catchphrase of like eye-catching, not super cheesy, aka PowerPoint field stock photos of team members, high-fiving, matching. Okay, so here's the thing. When I have when I started at my role, we didn't have like any pictures at all. So when I was redeveloping some of the things, I was just like going into PowerPoint and typing in, like you type in the word photo, and that's like the key good keyword to use because that's where all the photos come up, or you type in people, and it gives you all this essentially diverse pictures and inclusive pictures. So that's my that was my go-to for a while. But again, I was like thinking back when he was talking about this. I'm like, oh my god, I've got some that are probably like woo, high five, or like, you know, they're in the science lab together. Like, it does it. Oh yeah. Now it kind of I always I I do obviously try to make it make sense for the presentation, but like what he was saying though, it's you know, the the matching wardrobe color combinations. He goes, When's the last time you've been at the office and everyone's just not not obviously wearing like a uh uh a uh company logo or what you know sponsored, yeah, but like office setting. What's the chance? Everyone's just color-coded, you know. And uh he's but another he said with that is too is he goes, We have these little devices that we all own now that actually take fairly good pictures. He goes and he shared one when he was on vacation. It was a uh mural um that he took. He was walking down, whatever city he was in. He goes, Oh, that's kind of cool. I might be able to use that at some point. So he took a picture of it, and sure enough, he said, I'm building out a presentation, I'm gonna put that one in there. So you know, that type of stuff where you just why not use your use your creativity, sunsets, skyline, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_03I love that. Uh I swear, like the more the more you talk about him, the more I love Gregory Tall. Like, um, because I oh gosh, it's become a bit of a meme in the office of how much I hate clip art. Like, I feel like I say that I hate a lot of things on this show. I'm not a hateful person, I promise. But clip art are just like the useless images in presentations, or like if you make a uh like a handout for something, like a quick reference, sure, and you just throw dumb stuff on it, that absolutely it just drives me up a wall. But um, to the point that people realize how much I hate this, that if they make a presentation and they're like, hey, would you mind taking a look at this? They'll purposefully put in like a stupid clip art or just something because they know it's gonna get my go like oh. But funny enough, I'm totally on board with them doing that because I feel like the more they call out how ridiculous it is too, the less likely they're actually gonna do it, like when the stakes are high and like they need to put something professional together. They're not gonna put you know, clippy the clip art guy, like they're not gonna put that in because it's wildly unprofessional and ridiculous looking. Um, I do like the idea of personal photos, though. Like, have you ever done that? Ever done personal photos? Uh like for a presentation or anything?
SPEAKER_00Um I'm just thinking it came to my mind that when you were just sharing that, I so the coffee club that I host, the first for getting into the newsletter and then putting it on the um our presentation slide, I the first one I used when I started at my role four years ago was a picture of my hand with a coffee mug in it, and it says the coffee mug says Milwaukee home. And I'm like, that's perfect, because this is the Milwaukee city, and I work in Milwaukee and whatever. And so I sent that to the team that does the newsletter, and one guy wrote back, he goes, uh, well, I I'm gonna pick something else because I was the picture of the the coffee mug was a brand, a Milwaukee company. And so he was like, I don't wanna get you know muddy the waters. And I was like, well, he goes, and we don't have nowhere that cot that the picture's from. And I wrote back, I'm like, that's my hand, that's my picture.
SPEAKER_03So you don't have the uh Costanza hand? You the hand the hand model?
SPEAKER_00So I was like, okay, but I'm like, that's my hand, I take that photo. So I just remember that was my boss at the time was like, are you kidding me? And he's I'm like, yeah, they wanted to they wanted to use another one. He's like, well, alright.
SPEAKER_03I thought you were gonna say something like, where did you find a creature from the Black Lagoon outfit to wear so you could hold that coffee mug? Like, that's so weird.
SPEAKER_00Well, it was like at Halloween when I when I we took office photos and they said the the costume party isn't till next week.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like the costume party is every day when I wear it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_03Bro. 6'7. I have now officially turned off uh the reminder.
SPEAKER_00No, to answer your question, I I have not used my own photos, but I I love the idea, and I'm yeah, I'm gonna definitely have that in my back pocket for going forward.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I have. Um, I've used personal photos, but it's very sparing, and I feel like the message needs to be like really, really deliberate. Um I think it was a couple maybe two, three years ago or something, I was doing a presentation on resilience, and it was just a weird happenstance that I I would always do my presentation like I do, I'd build my presentations about like a month in advance and then revisit them like a week prior and kind of just fine-tune. And it just so happened to be that I was dropping my kids off at school and I I went a different way than I normally do. Don't know why. And there was a uh a small little like I don't know if it's a Baptist church or something like that, but they have like those little uh like marquee signs out front, and the sign said something about like resilience is knowing you're on the right path. And I just thought I'm like, No, I I I'm you can be as religious as you are, and I I respect the daylights out of it. Um but I just thought that was such a really kind of a like a weird circumstance, like of all the things, really. So I pulled over and I took a picture and I used that in the presentation to like and I thought what a what a great way to kind of tie everything all together. So like there are certain times I will, but I will say I'm probably more sparing than I should be. I I I could probably take more generic photos, like you were saying. Um, Gregory took like a um mural picture or something like that. Yeah, I think something like that could be really cool. Um, and it adds it adds a personality to the presentation rather than it just being sterilized clip art. And I I'll get off my high horse here in a second, but I know you and I have talked about this idea of authenticity, right? Like people crave authentic and genuine. Not this, like I'm on Instagram and I hashtag just woke up, but I'm in a perfectly lit environment and I don't have bedhead. Well, I don't have any here, so I can't have bedhead. Um, but you know what I mean? Like they see that, they're like, that's fake. So when they see something that's real and something that you produced, and like, yeah, I took this picture and you can you have a story behind it. I think that makes it far more relatable and more powerful for the content that you're trying to demonstrate.
SPEAKER_00There's a uh guy on Instagram who makes reels comparing the general public to influencers going through everyday life. So he'll be like, this is a normal person, this is how normal people eat their bread, you know, and he'll just be like buttering his bread and eating it. Yeah, making, oh, this is good, whatever. And then it's like the influencers are like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. You can't see what I'm doing, audience, but they're you're tapping the bread, you're flake using a knife to flake off the crust, you're you know, just doing this obnoxious stuff, and it's like so over the top, but it's true, because then you you see people doing that with their with their food or their outfits or whatever, just oh yeah, well over the top. And um but now that I think about it, I I could probably get a picture of me eating my oatmeal on a presentation just because that's you know what I do for breakfast.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Breakfast at champs, breakfast of champs. That's why I start every day with a ice cold Miller Light. No, I don't, I do not, I do not. I I joke, I kid. No, I don't. Please don't. She had never said that.
SPEAKER_00Now, can I can I can I say that I start my day with an NA beer?
SPEAKER_02Because I know we are just sitting on a towing that line, aren't we?
SPEAKER_00Can can we like sitting at a meeting and they're like, oh, what do you have in here? Like right now, I'm drinking a LaCroix while I record this podcast, but I've been sitting in a work meeting with a let's say an NA beer, and they're like, What do you have in there? And I'm like, it's okay, it's not alcoholic. That would just feel so weird to me. I wouldn't do it, I couldn't do it. That would just be so so it's not like you're just sipping on a uh sparkling water. It's like you've purposely gone to be like, I want it, I want kind of an alcoholic beverage, even though it's not alcoholic.
SPEAKER_03You're not wrong, like uh, I remember this would have been oh gosh, this would have been like five or six years ago. I remember being on a video call because we were all remote at the time, and one of the guys in the group was drinking out of like a skinny can. And and you couldn't see the label on it. And eventually my manager is like, are you having are you having a white claw?
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_03He was having like a bubbler or something like that.
SPEAKER_01He's like, No.
SPEAKER_02And I laughed. I was like, why is that the first thing that came to your mind?
SPEAKER_03She's like, your body's like, because I am well I since you're saying you're drinking LaCroix, I am drinking a fine uh Coke, uh uh Lucky's cat sauce. There you go, right? Ghost pepper, sweet and spicy. No. Uh a cherry float, zero sugar coke. Oh you know what? Is that new? I don't know. I don't know. I I I saw it and it was a good deal, so I bought it, and uh, it's alright. It is alright. Yeah. As Charlie Kelly would say, and it's always sunny in Philadelphia, I am drinking uh straight mixer. Straight mixer right here, folks.
SPEAKER_01You said they're gonna have uh mixers here.
SPEAKER_00They got screwdrivers. Charlie, that's that's orange juice.
SPEAKER_03What I uh I I like the did he have any others that uh um the other uh anecdotes or or things from his presentation at all?
SPEAKER_00That was I covered them the main ones for sure. Um I you know, I think just the idea of it's okay for you to have a lot of slides, but the idea is again to kind of keep it quick because at the end of the day, like I said before, yeah. True for the facilitator, the presentation is that visual aid, it's not so much the um you know what they should be necessarily be staring at for a well I uh I have one.
SPEAKER_03Can I add one? Please. I mean I'm not Gregory Tall, um, but I'm gonna do my darndest, and that is uh if you make a presentation with slides, you should use all of your slides. So let me let me explain. I know what a novel concept, but I and I'll bet you'll know as soon as I'm starting to get into this where I'm going, and that is when folks, when facilitators start running out of time, that clicker in their hand gets real quick, and they start, oh, that's okay, we we already covered this, and they hammer through like six or seven slides. Don't do that, like at all. I we get it. You you ran long on something, so you have to make up time, but at least to me, and I'd love your opinion on this, when I see somebody do that, that bodes the question in my head of, well, if that wasn't important, what other things did you cover that also weren't important? Like, so you're starting to question the material all over again. Like, I don't I don't know. If if you can just zing past all of that like it was nothing, why should I care about everything you just covered?
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_03I don't know.
SPEAKER_00With that, with that, Steve, I would I think that comes down to timing and experience as a facilitator. Sure. You need to have a general idea of how long the presentation or training session is going to take.
SPEAKER_03Million percent.
SPEAKER_00While while I agree that it isn't necessarily a great look or maybe experience for the end user, but I think if time is truly ticking away, I I don't know, maybe you have a response for this, but I I wonder, again, I don't I think clicking through really quickly and just like, oh, we did that already, but I think that there has to be a good way to make sure that the content does get mentioned, whether you not need to speed it up or I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean my response to that is there's a couple things you can do. Um, you can bite the bullet and just come clean to the group. Like depending, you might just have to say, all right, we have about 30 minutes more of slides, and I realize we have 15 minutes left.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03If you need to leave after 15 minutes, I understand, and I will make sure I will get you the content and I will find a way to explain. Like, you you're gonna have to eat a little bit of crow because it's your own fault that you fell behind. It's not the audience, the audience doesn't owe you anything, you owe the audience everything. So you can do that, or if there is a method that you can revisit it at a later time, you can do that. Like, so there are ways to do it rather than just hammering through things. Like a good example of this, and this is maybe this just the way my brain works, would be like if I I'm watching a movie, right? I'm watching Lord of the Rings, because we've talked about Lord of the Rings 50,000 times on this podcast, right? But like I'm watching Fellowship of the Ring, and it's a if you're watching the uncut, it's four hours. You're like, okay, that's a strap in, we're doing this. And maybe Peter Jackson's like at the two and a half hour mark, and is like, whoa, this is going real long here, and then all of a sudden we fast forward, and like he just fast forwards an hour. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff in there, like, yes, every single bit in there important. No, but it's necessary for the story to take full fruition and you learn bits about the characters and growth and whatnot. So when you just fast forward through something like that, I think it's such an egregious affront to the audience because you're depriving them of information that you promised to deliver, and you're saying, uh, I screwed up. Whoops. So I I don't know, and maybe I'm being too hard. Like I could be just being way too hard on it, but that is that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. There you ooh, Colin Quinn. Nailed it.
SPEAKER_00Boom, roasted. Nah. That is no, I I like the I like the thought in that. I I would probably flip the dick where no, no, I I I I really well we've talked about this in previous episodes. It's I think it's good that we we don't always agree and see eye to eye because we we talked about that. Remember the the AL acronym always leave early or be done. I I would feel almost worse, I think, like, oh my god, we're gonna be running 15 minutes over, where I'd say, you know, but again, that I and I guess not to pat myself on the back, but like that's one thing I know in in the in the past when my manager has been there to observe. She's got a lot of a lot of times it would be, hey, here's some um good notes or whatever. But the one thing she always took away is like you're always just right on point with the timing. So it's just but again, it comes with the the experience of being able to. Absolutely, you know, and there's and it's it's not just me, it's not just managing you as a facilitator, it's when those small group conversations, when those activities are going on, and I'm constantly like checking my Fitbit or looking at the clock, being like, okay, this is because sometimes that five to seven minute small group conversation is gonna go 10 or 11, but then you just make those adjustments and you leave yourself that that uh room, right? The leg room, I suppose, to be able to navigate. And but if that were ever the case, so yeah, I think that would that would be tough. That would be definitely a learning experience for that facilitator to be like, oh crap, I got a lot more to go. Because and I think that's a good at least what you suggested of like, hey, we're gonna run a little bit over your if you gotta go, you gotta go, and maybe it offered that way.
SPEAKER_03And now I'm not throwing stones in a glass house here. Like, I have been guilty of that in my early years of being in this this industry, I've I've totally done it. I've totally done it when I was very poor with my time management and not and trying to fit 10 pounds of information in a five-pound bag. Yes, I had to learn to simplify and make things a bit more digestible. And to Gregory Tall's point, the more of that you practice, the more refined and simplified you can make your presentations, really the less likely you're gonna run into the the overdrafting of like oh, I'm I'm past my time. See you guys later. Like, you're not gonna do that because you have your your presentation simply as a visual aid. And I would I'd maybe argue that using Gregory Tall's method, and then if you have to fast forward through some of the slides, it doesn't feel as egregious because it's not like there's these novels of text on the screen where it's like, oh, just a couple words here and there, all right, whatever. And if they have a handout, okay, like you can use that as your walkaway point of like, hey, I know we weren't able to hit all the things I wanted to. You do have your guide with you. I'm always available if you have any questions, like you can propose it away like that, or there's there's always a method, there's always a way to do it. The Patrick. Yes, do you know who never runs out of time for their presentations and is always the subject of ours. Spinarouski. It is. You're right, it is the spinarooski, folks. While Mr. Patrick fires up the wheel, a very, very wooden wheel. A reminder for all of our listeners. Each episode we spin the spinneruski, which is a wheel of names that might, just might, belong to the woman who so generously shoved us into the ugly club all those many years ago. And the goal of this is that eventually we'll land on her name so we can thank her properly. Mr. Patrick, are you ready?
SPEAKER_00I'm very ready. We are locked and loaded, we are wooden wheeled. Spin that Rooski.
SPEAKER_03If we could add like an echo to my voice when they say spin that Rooski, that would be great.
SPEAKER_00Are you ready for this one? Yes, what who is it? Paisley!
SPEAKER_02Paisley!
SPEAKER_00Like former country, former, but country singer Brad. Last name, Paisley, but this is first name, Paisley.
SPEAKER_03Ah, wow. Well, I don't I don't actually think I know a Paisley. And now there's gonna be one Paisley out in the world that's like, wow, you've already forgotten me. No, um, I don't know if I do, but regardless, Paisley, if you were the shining example of a woman that pushed Mr. Patrick and I into the ugly club all those years ago, my goodness, we have nothing but thanks to give to you. Because you have lived rent-free in our heads, and we owe you so very much. So thank you, Paisley.
SPEAKER_00That's wonderful. Well, Steve, that about does it for this episode. Want to thank everyone out in the listener land for joining us on Grossy Competent. If you would like if you like what you're hearing and want to support the show, here are the best ways possible.
SPEAKER_03You can subscribe, follow, and give a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts. You can visit us on Buzzsprout at grosslycompetent.buzzprout.com. Here you can become an active supporter and help us out with the show. Every cent counts and we wildly appreciate it. Give us a shout on Instagram at grossly competent. You can email us directly at grosslycompetent at gmail.com. And please, if nothing, please tell your friends, family, coworkers, or that super duper awesome learning and development person or the person that just needs help with their presentations, tell them about this podcast. We love you so much for it.
SPEAKER_00We appreciate all of you more than you know. This is truly a labor of love, and any support you can throw out our way truly means world to us. This show takes a surprisingly amount of effort for two guys who strangely look like us, and we are very grateful we get to bring it to you each and every week.
SPEAKER_03Hell yeah, man. Totally is the truth. Um, do you have any uh do you have any shoutouts this week, Patrick?
SPEAKER_00I do. While you were out uh enjoying your beach-filled vacation, I mentioned before I was out at home, uh back at home uh working, and we had a new listener last week, and I want to point that out from Elmont, New York. Now I had I had to look that up because I was not familiar with where Elmont was, and I'm glad I did because I learned a little bit about that area. Elmont is on the outskirts of Queens, so right outside of one of the five boroughs of New York City, and it's officially unincorporated. Although they have tried to incorporate themselves multiple times to be a village, to no avail. But you know what? You'll get them next time. And thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Elma, you rock. Um, I did see that on our stats. Um, that's awesome. I you learned something new. Maybe that's what we need to do. Whenever we get uh like uh an interesting city that pop up on our stats, we should do a little bit that we we uh we learn about it. Yes. I don't know. Then people can actually think like, well, I learned something. That would be pretty wild. That'd be pretty great.
SPEAKER_00I know. And then we could officially be a learning and development podcast.
SPEAKER_03People can say, like, I learned a thing from these two knuckleheads. Yeah. Um, so uh this week I I do have a shout out, and that is um gas stations that have clean bathrooms. Nope. Seriously, that's it. Because uh if you work in a gas station and your bathroom is like walking into the outer seventh circle of hell with the rest of those that are violent to others, um, you need to do better. And yes, I I did drop a Dante's Inferno nugget right there for you. So you've now learned another little bit. So you're welcome.
SPEAKER_00Love it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. All right, man. Should we close this bad boy out? Let's do it. All right, Ugos, thank you very much. That is the end of this episode. We will see you next time. Let's sing it out.
SPEAKER_01All righty.
SPEAKER_02Oh man, you were you were feeling it. You were feeling the music.
SPEAKER_00That's great. That's great. It's like your s you know, like your son, he loves the intro.
SPEAKER_03He does, he does, he does love the intro. Big fan.
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