Inadvertent Therapy with L&D

... and how does that make you... feel?

In this episode of Grossly Competent, hosts Steve and Patrick discuss the secret job responsibility of all Learning and Development professionals: that of built-in therapist. Is it a consequence of being a support position in the work environment? Or are they looking for an advocate? Is it because they are affiliated with HR? Or not really HR?

Find out what the boys think in this episode!

But first, Patrick talks about all things March Madness while Steve describes his wish of seeing Sebastian Janikowski kick a field goal with stipulations. And if that's not enough, the boys sprinkle in a few stories - some told and others teased - of almost becoming a Tolkein character and another about the dangers of sitting on escalators.

Here are some random links based on the content you might find fascinating:

• Did you know that professional Golf used to put the fate of the world in the public's hands!
• Why Sebastian Janikowski making wishes come true (NSFW - Language)
• An absolute banger: Frodo of the Nine Fingers
• Escalators are basically Satan's plaything

Come for the chat, stay for the laughs, and run from our faces: we're Grossly Competent!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Hello and welcome to Grossly Competent, the learning, development, and adulting podcast that doesn't claim to be pretty, but we'll happily pretend to be slightly competent. I am your host, Steve Counsel, and I'm joined by my co-host best. You can't even get it out. How scathing is this going to be? Best known as Uglyface McUgly, Mr.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Patrick Ayleshire. You are truly a child, and I love it. Well, thanks, Steve. I truly admire the bravery it takes to open this adulting podcast like that. Especially coming from someone whose main adult responsibility today was remembering to bring headphones.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yes. The funny thing is, I just keep my headphones right on this desk that I'm at right now because I would forget them. I uh I know I know where I stand in life, and childish is pretty fitting. That's fair. Well, folks, we have some great things to talk about today. I it's a really nice topic. Patrick was the one that originally came up with it, so gotta give you credit where it belongs. But until we get to that part, those of you out in listener land, you are wanting to know just as much as I am who Mr. Patrick is our sponsor of the week.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Our sponsor of the week is wait for it. Googling symptoms at midnight. It's probably nothing. It's definitely something. Googling symptoms at midnight. Escalating calmly. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Wow. Thanks, big Googling Symptoms at midnight. If there's anything that Dr. Google provides, it's a sense of closure when it comes to why does this hurt? Is it the paper cut or is it cancer? Or or a tumor. Or a tumor. Yeah. There is nothing. And I mean this with the biggest heaping pile of sarcasm. There is nothing that doctors love more than when you go to them and say, Well, I wasn't sure what this was, so I Googled it. There's nothing they love more. Nothing. So there's that. And maybe for a future podcast, I can always uh dangle this little carrot, but I had somebody, I almost needed to get my finger removed. And yeah, it's a weird story. I almost had to get my finger removed because my wedding ring was too tight. And the hand specialist that helped solve the problem when he did, his words were, and they say YouTube is worth nothing. So, folks, I promise you, lots of professions are using Google and YouTube, and some you probably wish worked.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

That's that is that's kind of messed up. I'm glad you're uh you didn't have an amputation of sorts.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

I joked and said I was gonna be Frodo of the Nine Fingers. Those of you out there that are uh giant nerds like myself, you are probably singing it to yourself just like the uh what was it, the 70s cartoon? Sure. Anyway, no, no, so what's going on in your world, Mr. Patrick?

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Well, it's it's a fun time of year. So, Steve, I gotta tell you, unbeknownst to you, maybe it is the official start of March Madness.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Oh, I thought you were gonna say the official start of spring. You're right. You're right. I did not know that it was March Madness. That's how little I pay attention.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

NCA tournament as of a recording today on a Wednesday. It starts tomorrow on a Thursday. And it's a super exciting time of year for me. It's for me, it's the best weekend of the year, Thursday through Sunday. Sure. The start of the tournament. It's the energy from 64 teams, narrowing down to sweet 16 at the end of the night on Sunday. It's just a great time of year. Per usual, as I have done every single year in my adult life since I've graduated from college, I'll be off work both Thursday and Friday. So I can sit on my couch and watch basketball.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

I am not quite sure why it's not a national holiday just yet. I mean, how can one even focus at work during this time? Oh, I I don't even try it because I I won't I won't be working.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

I can answer that because I don't follow basketball, like at all. I have joked, I hedge my bets in saying that basketball is just it's not my cup of tea. Like watching it does nothing for me, but I hedge my bets in saying that the only time I like to watch basketball is if my kids want to play it. Like, sure. Okay. So if they want to join the basketball team, I'll be like, I don't want them thinking like, yeah, but dad doesn't he hates basketball. It's like hate's a strong word, sweeney. It's just like the last thing on the planet I watch.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

So there's he can't, dad's not gonna make it to my game. He said his ring is stuck on his finger again.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

He says he's trying to fit a size 8 ring on a size 10 finger, and it just feels weird. I think he's lying to us. No, but you know, it's kind of funny. So I did not realize it's March Madness. That's how aloof I am on that topic. But and this is now that I'm thinking about it, probably makes sense why I saw this video. I think it was yesterday, maybe even the day before, before I was going to bed, I was doing what all good adults do, and that is doom scrolling before I went. And I saw this video of a guy doing like he was playing basketball. It was just him though, like, and he was doing these things that are just like egregiously against the rules. Like, even uh even a dummy like me in the world of basketball knows that like you can't just run with the ball, right? Right? Like, that's called traveling. And what was funny is this guy was doing these things and then splicing in actual footage of like professional basketball, or it could have been college for all I know, where they're violating these rules to the nines, like yeah, he just like runs the like half the court up to the the hoop and just like dunks it, and then it shows an actual NBA professional do exactly that. Like you just like see the ball never hit the ground.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

There is no traveling called in the NBA, it's very infrequent, yeah. Yeah, that's local local listeners that are from the Milwaukee area or Wisconsin were obviously big Bucks fans, and Giannis has been a huge part of the Milwaukee history the last 10 some years. Even he even he travels quite a bit. He does his little Euro step and it's a crate move, but there's there's plenty of footage where he is taking gigantic steps more than you are supposed to be doing, but it's you know, they wanna the NBA wants a lot of points being scored, and so if you call traveling, there's a chance they won't be able to score in that play. Is that really why? Probably. It's the game is the game and the game has evolved a lot where it's just it's a very high scoring. I I would say overall, the product isn't great. Now, I'm not comparing college to the NBA. The NBA obviously are professionals, they get paid so much money, they are very talented. Oh, sure. The reason I loved college is that it's just it's the college experience. Well, one, the NCA tournament itself is just the the crown jewel for me. But you've got the height, the bands, you've got the student sections, you've got just the overall the height, you know, and even now it's like they've got the NIL, the money, and all that stuff, and the transfer portal, which is not it's not great, but the idea of just the kind of innocence of the of the college tournament and all that is what I prefer more to watch than what that video you were watching was showing was was definitely there's some truth to that because it is it can be some garbage for sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

And there's you know, every sport is guilty of it, right? And I'm not trying to like make fun of basketball exclusively, it's just it's funny you said, oh, March Madness. I'm like, oh, I'll just watch your video on that. Like, I'm I'm a big football guy, like fine, and I do find it funny that you're saying that the refs won't call traveling because they want like those points to be scored. Yeah, yet football fanatics like myself will scrutinize plays, be like, his toes were clearly in the line. Like, I don't know. Like, according to my my armchair quarterbacking and refereeing, there was like an eighth of an inch over the line. I know that's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Like, it's you know what is worse, Steve. Oh, you know what's worse, Steve, is not only people that will yell at the TV, but when you're at a live event and you are you are 6,000 feet away from the call, and you're like, that was a ball, that was a strike, that was a foul, that was a penal. No, shut up. You cannot, there's no way you saw that his pinky toe was on the line, okay?

SPEAKER_01 10:37

That and I I love the cognitive dissonance. Full disclosure, I'm guilty, like for sure. I don't know, God, I've certainly yelled at my TV, like, oh my, come on, whatever, yeah, whatever. But when you're you're right, when you're live, I would love just one time, you know what? Hey, listeners out there, if it just happens to be that I have a make a wish from like the make a wish foundation, mine's gonna be that at some sporting event, somebody needs to yell some ridiculous thing, like, no, that was a foul from like the nosebleeds, and I need a ref to go, that guy up there's got a point. Like, all right, all right, reversing the call. Sorry, folks. Like, I need that, or my NFL fans out there, and some of my close friends know this. My my tried and true is that the the former kicker for the Oakland Raiders, Sebastian Janikowski. My dream was for him to walk onto the field without a helmet, a flask tucked into his pants, and he has to have a marb just barely hanging off his lip, and then just crank like a 50-yard field goal at just like he doesn't care, like he does not want to be there. That on my deathbed needs to happen. Sebastian Janikowski. Well, if he's listening, I want him to know he he needs to do this for me. So I know he's a big listener, huge fan. Oh, stop sending us messages. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

So C Bass, hook it up. I'm one last one last gripe about about the sports walk. And I I don't this may or may not be a rule. I haven't thought about it in a while, but I know it was very, very like recent that people could do this. The worst fan, the worst rule, not fans, the worst rule is if you're watching professional golf, the PGA, do you know about this rule, Steve? No, I don't think so. Uh-huh. And maybe it's not a rule anymore. Maybe someone that's a golf fanatic can can let us know. But as of let's say like a few years ago, someone that was watching the the PGA tour, one of the tournaments on TV, could call in and report a violation. What? Yeah, no, serious, serious. They would call in and say, then guy, like if he's in the bunker and he's like swinging back, like one of the rules is your your your club can't like hit the sand when you're doing your backswing or whatever. And and if they saw like some sand move, or they saw them like barely tap the ball or put the ball down the runk when they're doing a drop shot or whatever, like people would call in. Like that was a legit thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

I've it's never heard this before. Listeners, obviously, this is an audio format. You didn't witness my mouth just open like like a bass, just listening to Patrick. What? That's insane. Yeah. Wow. I never knew that. Give control you said you're not sure if it's still something, right? We'll have to we'll have to uh look up and put it in the show notes or something. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Yeah, huh? Holy hell. Wow, you learn something new every day. That is oh god, could you imagine that for any like baseball, like any of that? Oh my god, no, there's enough keyboard warriors out there. My god, right. Oh, that would be awful. Maybe somebody would be accused of being AI. I mean, I know how that feels yeah, talk about a deep cut. Anyway, deep cut. We're on episode 28. Real deep, guys, real deep cut. Talk to me when you hit like episode 300.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Like, we're gonna we have to keep coming up with different names for the Wayback Machine because they'd be like, You've had six episodes, you get called the Wayback Machine. Oh, it was five weeks ago. Yeah, you can't remember that, jeez, people. Oh my god. We we repeat stuff all the time, and it's it's particularly because of our weak ass memory, but you it's not only that facially we're hideous, it's that our memories are hideous. It's just overall our human existence.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Our minds try to escape our vicage as much as possible. Like, it's like, oh god, no, get me out of here. And it's like, no, no, just like Creed said here in my own prison. Anyway, okay, so there's there's that. All right, Patrick. So I I don't know, something kind of came up recently, and I I don't know if it's like the weather or what. Because okay, so some of you out there, you know that we're Patrick and I are Wisconsinites. We have had some goofy ass weather recently. Like, what was it like a week and a half, two weeks ago, something like that? Monday was it was 65. Oh, it was so it was 60, and you have to realize Patrick is in Milwaukee, so he gets kind of that that's that lake effect where I am not near Milwaukee. I would I would like to say that I'm out what's called the Boonies, and it was close to 70. It was crazy, and then in the matter of a week, we got a blizzard, like not just like a little smattering of snow, like they shut down schools and stuff, like it just anyway. So I think everyone's just maybe they're on edge because that I don't know, but I have noticed that I've had quite a few folks come into my office at work and chat to me about things that are bothering them, and I I don't mind it. I do not mind it whatsoever. I I like being there, I like being there for people that need it. I've said it in the past that I probably should have been like a therapist or psychologist or something like that, but it just it got me thinking, and you'd mentioned this like two, three, maybe even like a month ago, this idea, and it just maybe it just stuck in my head and resonated. And that is this kind of interesting dynamic, or even like this really kind of underplayed role that L D is this unofficial counselor slash therapist in organizations. Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

I I I would agree with that. I was kind of hoping you were gonna start talking about festivists as far as people coming to complain to you about something, you know, airing our grievances. But I I do think we could probably tie in learning development to Seinfeld at some point. Well, you can tie anything into Seinfeld, it's about nothing and everything all at once.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

No, you know, actually, you bring up something really important that I want to make sure that I mention, and that is I don't look at these as grievances, like it wasn't like people were just complaining, it was like, okay, I'm really having a tough time with this, or my team is struggling with this. Like, so it's all like very, I mean, personal things because it's somebody admitting that they don't know something or that they're lacking in something, and they're looking for some form of guidance. So I do really want to make sure I set that straight because the last thing I want is like people to think, like, oh, well, I'm just gonna go to Steven Gripe, because that's that's not my place. Like, I'm I'm there to help, not just listen to you get mad and and talk trash about people or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

That's funny that you you mentioned that too about about the griping, and I was talking about grievances, but I we like to level set when we do training, especially when I we talk about having a a safe space and the the brave zone we use, so we use a handful of this of of kind of some things to consider. So, like sure, sure, consider different points of view, keep an open mind in the training, allow room for silence, which is again allow it things to just like let it marinate for a minute before you decide to respond, right? It's just being a good active listener. There are some of those things too, and we talk about how it's a it's a safe space we want people to be able to share, but at the same time, we do say, hey, this isn't a a gripe session, it's not a way to it's to necessarily just complain about work, it's about how can we maybe solve your problem, how can we help get there? Yeah, when when employees come up to me after I facilitated training, and if they feel that I'm maybe a trustworthy guy, uh or you know, we they may want to just ch which is cool. Shoot the shit, as they say. But sometimes they do want to talk about their frustrations, uh, just regards to something that happened that that was on the same topic of about what the top what the uh training was on. Yeah. I'll add that when I facilitate training, I do like to create that safe space, as I mentioned. Yeah. You know, I don't want to necessarily make that training ever about me, but depending how I'm reading the room, I will sometimes share personal stories or those anecdotes and tie those in to the training. And so it I think that can make it more vulnerable. I'm I'm always very quick to get it back to the content and to the group, but there's times where I think it absolutely works when you share a similar story to what you may have experienced as a facilitator. Yeah, it ties into that topic. And before I kick it back to you, I'm thinking back to my my teaching days of I was teaching elementary students. So I said the stories I shared were a lot different, they were a lot less personal because I'm not gonna tell these kids, no, yeah, at the bar over the weekend I ran into you know, whatever. So that wouldn't be good.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

I got pushed to the side because I'm so gross looking. Like that. Yeah, yeah. You kids ever beat a boomers before?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Just great country bar at the top and a nightclub in the bottom. I okay, side note, I did, I did, I'm not making this up, everyone. I was teaching third or fourth grade, and I had a a student come in on a Monday and was like, Hey everyone, hope welcome back. Hope you had a great weekend. Mr. Lshar, my mom said she saw you out on Saturday. And my initial thought wasn't like, oh crap, where? It was what time of night was that? Because I want to determine what level of douchhiness I was at. But back to back to my back to the teaching days. So I would tell the kids it wasn't a lot of stuff that was in my current life going on, but it was a lot of stories about my childhood. So then those seven, eight, nine-year-olds could relate to that when I was telling a personal narrative story, teaching them about how cool it is to write those stories about something that you have lived and breathed. Yes. Like the time I told them about the incident I had as a child on an escalator at Southridge Mall. Yeah. Not going. No.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

We need to hear about this one. All right. Give me, give me one minute to I'm gonna I'm gonna sum this up so quick so I can just move on because it's freaking awesome. I have a buddy of mine called his name, his name is also Steve, and it's not the one I'm talking to right now. This is soccer Steve. He oh oh, Soccer Steve. You went to go visit him in California and song Avatars. That's right. We tell all the stories here. So Soccer Steve used to live in by me in the suburbs of Milwaukee. And him and I were at the mall with his parents at Southridge Mall, which is, for those not listening, it's a you know big, big mall like typical city has. And we were going down the escalator and we decided to sit because we were tired. And they always tell you to get ready to, you know, make sure that you're ready to to step off and all that, because most of the time people might, if your shoes are untied or whatever, you might, your shoes might get caught and it could be bad. Well, unfortunately, I was chatting away like I normally do, and my buddy Steve starts to stand up because the escalator is almost at the bottom. And I was about a half second behind him, and I felt a little bit of a pinch. And by a little, I mean a lot of pinch. And where that pinch was was on my butt. And it really hurt. I ripped a hole in my shorts, and I might have been bleeding a little bit from my bottom. Oh no. Because it literally so my god. I remember feeling the pinch and then like kept walking. No, because no one's no one saw it, at least that I was aware of. And I'm walking in the mall. I'm probably like, God, I hope I was like seven or eight and not like 20. I thought you were gonna say 1780. I was young, I was a kid. So let's say like under 10, okay. And I remember like reaching back because I was it was summertime, I was wearing like shorts or whatever, and I remember reaching back and because being like, ow. And then I reached back and I'm like, oh, there's a hole. And then like, oh, I'm bleeding. And then I remember I had to like tell my mom, my buddy's friend, like, hey, I I rip I pinched my butt. So flash forward to 200 and we'll say 16, 17, I am telling third and fourth graders a story about, and we're talking about personal narratives, and they absolutely loved it. They all went home and told their parents because I had parents telling me at conferences, like, hey, I heard the story about the escalator.

unknown 25:09

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

But with that said, as I digress here, they loved personal narratives because that was a story that was memorable, and then they jumped in with their own stories.

unknown 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

No, that did you tell them, did you tell them also about how awesome it is to look at solar eclipses?

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Whoa, whoa, one story at a time. No, that hadn't yet. That hadn't happened yet. Oh I'm sorry. That had not happened yet. Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

You know, I so once again, listeners, I know you can't see us, but I have a really long cord for my headphones, and I find uh I don't know if any of you watch the daily show, specifically when Jon Stewart is on there, but when he's talking or like when he makes certain comments, he grabs his papers and like fidget with them. And I find I do the same thing with this cord when I'm like, yeah, okay. And I like make a little M. Anyway, nobody else in Mr. Land gives a shit. So there's that cool. No, I I think that you raise a really interesting point, and and I like that you were using narrative for your students, whatnot. It's a it's a great learning tool. My god, we could talk all day long about how like adding personal touch to your training makes a tremendous difference. But something that I I think you address really well is this idea of when you share your experiences, you share it in a way to not say like, hey, look how great I am. Right. It's I've been in your shoes, or this is an experience I want you to learn from so you don't repeat my errors. Like, so you're coming from a position of wanting the best for those that you are working with. Right. It's and I do really like to stress that because and I'd love to hear your opinion on this too, because I feel like sometimes facilitators, public speakers, anybody that gets up in front of a group and speaks has this, maybe has a reputation of they want it to be all about them. Like, oh, well, pay attention to me because I am the expert. No, I'm I'm simply handing you the experiences that I have gone through that I've learned, and I really hope you take away something from that knowledge of that experience. I can't remember how many episodes those where we talked about emotional intelligence, the thermostat versus the thermometer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that was a story that I told about myself to a group that I was facilitating because and it wasn't a pretty story on my behalf. Like it was a story of my being petty and vindictive. And it was a real lesson in no, that's not the correct way to handle yourself, at least professionally and personally. You need to be better about how you adjust to the different roles and and how you work with people. And I to this day really do try to administer that as best I can. So I think it's a wonderful tool. Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Now, uh something I want to, oh, I'm sorry, I just want to I want to just add, I I've had it where even in my current position, I did this a few years ago where I was it was like about practicing what you preach, and I kind of slipped up where I was talking about how when you're when you're talking sharing stories in class and all that, it's yeah, best to just talk in generalities as far as oh, I was sure I had this one department where I was I was struggling with the communication wasn't there. And I started talking about how I was emailing a specific department. Oh, and and and it was funny because my my manager was there and she was like, and afterwards she was like, Hey, like, great job, whatever. And she's like, But just a heads up, like, I don't know if you caught yourself, but you you mentioned XYZ when you were, and I was like, Oh, oh yeah. She's like, So just to we want to make sure, and that was a great catch. And I was like, Oh, thank you for letting me know. That's something I have to like, I have to make sure I I change that story around a little bit to just be speak more, you know. Yes, again, it and the the the audience that was in that, they wouldn't have known, but sure, my boss and I knew that there's only like three people on that team, so it wouldn't have it wouldn't have been a good look as far as just being like, who we know who you're talking to. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

So oh no, that's that's extremely relevant. No, something I was I was kind of interested in because it when you brought up this idea of I know you said the word grievances, but like individuals coming to you maybe after a a session that you're facilitating or a training, and they talk to you about like maybe something that's bothering them or a flaw or a weakness, something that they perceive in themselves. I'm curious because your role as you have it right now, like you work with the city or like the county, whatever, and you're working with a large amount of other like departments and groups. And I'm curious, do you feel like you because you've also worked private sector too? Like, yeah, and I want to stress that for those listening. Do you do you feel like you get the same amount, less, more of that people approaching you with kind of these therapeutic moments of like, hey, I really could use your advice on this, or like, do you see uh a switch of that at all in where you are at? I hope that makes sense. I'm sorry, it felt like word salad. No, okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

No, it does. I I would say at my current employer, I think employees do hold back a little bit. I mean, that once they get to know me, and they're in they're in a lot of sessions with me if they have it uh you know, because sometimes it's like I'll do a training and I won't see these people for a couple years. But there are some trade some departments that do repeated training, and I get to I get to know these people on a pretty good basis, you know. And I might be on some committees with them, and so they get to know me that way. I would say in this position, I think some people do tend to hold back just because of where I am at. We are we are part of human resources. So once people hear HR, they automate they sometimes will put up a wall. Where in my previous positions with with corporate, the I'd been on learning development that wasn't part of human resources, it was kind of its own entity. So that was a whole like, oh, that's a different ball game. So people would come up and talk to me, whatever they wanted to. And they they had a and again, it's a trust thing. I, as being in HR still, I am I'm gonna be trustworthy no matter what. Yeah. Unless it's obviously if it's always uh, hey, if you share something with me that I need to I have to report. Yeah. What if it was a very obvious serious topic, we won't go into that. But if it's something I always like, wow, I need to tell employee relations about that. I need to tell a director about that because it's a safety concern or whatever. But for just the whole like trust or I want to come up to you and pick your brain about this, that still happens where I'm at now. But I would say previously, when I when people knew I wasn't quite human resources, they get scared. Even though, again, I and this is kind of funny, Steve. I I I said this in training a few times too, which I didn't think it was that big deal. But I would say that learning development, at least in my company, we are the least HR of HR. Just because again, like I say that because we're we're facilitating, we're designing training. We're not, I mean, the em I don't get a boatload of emails about I9s or or employee concerns or complaints or private stuff. That doesn't come to me. I don't deal with that. That's not part of my purview and my role at the county. Yeah. But it was funny, I I happened to say that to someone who works in a different department, and she was like, We were just chatting after like one after work one day, and she was like, Hey, that makes us look bad. And I was like, Oh, okay. Oh, no, I'm sorry. I kind of laughed and I'm like, Oh, you're probably right. I said, No, but we we love what we do. So yeah, I I uh I guess not every to answer your question long-winded, if people feel that they want to come confess their sins, they are welcome to, but at the same time, it it feels sometimes that they might hold back a little bit. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

I was curious, like just with how things are positioned where you are, if if you would see less, perhaps, but it sounds like probably the average, if you will. No, that that's fascinating. And I am guilty as charged. I say the exact same thing about myself. I try to this will come across this will come out as mean, and it's not meant to. I try to distance myself from HR as much as possible, only because I feel like there is a stigma that is associated with HR as this this boogeyman, right? Like, oh, that that's the principal's office. Like, oh, if you get called to HR, oh boy, and I I think Linnelle, when we had Lynnelle Meath on, she was even talking about that. Like, how HR has this rap of like they're they're the judge, like they're the ones that are going to hammer down. Where L and D, we get to kind of play the aloof jester in a way, like we'll offer you some trinkets of wisdom, but we'll crack a joke while we're doing it, and we don't really have any power over you, like, because we don't need to. We we're there as a support mechanism, we are there for the D part, which is development. We're there to help you develop and be the best version of yourself you can, yeah. And I and I think that really does lend itself to why certain people feel a maybe this is an incorrect word, but compulsion. Like they feel like, oh, I'm gonna go talk to Patrick now or Steve now about this. And it's like they really confide in you. I and I I applaud that type of vulnerability. Um, I can it's and it's good that they trust you. Like, wow, thank you. I really appreciate that. I'm here to help as best I can. And sometimes you're like, Well, I know you don't have the answer, but I just really want to talk to you about it. Yeah, yeah, okay. Well, neat, thank you. Like, I I know I have a the face of you know, like Quasimoto, but I'm glad you felt that I was trustworthy.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Like, that's that's pretty great. Have you ever had a training session that's turned into like a full-blown confessional, and maybe not just one person, but kind of the whole the whole employee experience just coming out and being like no? I'm trying to think here.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

I've seen it on I'll guess I'll answer. Yeah, you go ahead. Let me think on that for a bit. Yeah. I when I worked, and this was actually very this was a good session. So it was it when I worked in manufacturing, I worked with a lot of temp to hire positions. And a lot of their work, it was a it was a tough, tough business. It was round the essentially around the clock position, so not position, but the organization. So it was first, second, third shift, hammering out all these zip ties, all injection molding. And the temp to hire position that I was training was packaging operators. So that was an entry-level position, but they had 90 days to get hired as long as they showed up to work and did their best. It was a pretty, yeah, pretty could be a successful run if they were able to make it. And but it was not easy. So one of the things I would explain to them, and this would we brought in, we would worked with the temp agencies to say, hey, you you have to let these people know that it's mandatory week at alternating weekends. And so they sometimes would say that, sometimes they wouldn't explain it very well, but then and the employees would show up and I'd I'd re-reemphasize that, and they're like, Yeah, that's cool. And I'm like, but hey, you're paid every week, so you're actually getting overtime check every every seven days because you're right. But I also had on the dry erase board in front of my presentation that was on the screen, I had a little dry erase board and said 12 slash two, and people might be like, Oh, December 2nd, that's a cool day. And I'd say, no, no, no, that's nothing to do with that. What 12 slash two means is that since you work mandatory alternating weekends, that's Saturday and Sunday. So, Steve, you start your shift on a Monday. You work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Okay, but now it's your weekend to work, and so you work Saturday and Sunday. Guess what after what the day after Sunday is? Monday. So I would have to explain to them, and this was so it was this is the way, quote, this is the way it's always been. This is when we need people around the clock, 12 days on, two days off. So they're working 24 days out of essentially. So that was now a lot of employees were okay with that, but we talked about this on a previous episode. I'm like a 99% sure about a discussion that ended up happening with these employees. So when I yes, I remember this though. The hours, yeah. So rather than yes, they had yes, the we need you to work 12 on two off. I'm that's just how it's gonna be for this position. However, they ended up speaking up to me. I passed this along, they filled out some surveys, the management wanted to hear it, and they went from an eight and a half hour day, which was an eight-hour day of work plus half hour unpaid lunch. They trimmed off half hour and they made it an eight-hour day with a 30-minute paid lunch. So two and a half hours of a five out five-day work week, they're getting back. And so that was one of those. I was kind of alluding back to that story of yeah, it was one of those. They they had their complaints. I wasn't the one that made the decision to change it, but I brought it up to management, and they heard from those employees, and it was a great thing at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Well, then that work that works out perfectly, right? Like in those instances, you were a trustworthy person. They came to you, they felt that maybe you could be a change agent for them. Sure. And like, hey, can you be our advocate? Which now that I'm thinking about it, maybe that's more. I said that maybe is perhaps the development side of learning and development, like that trustworthiness. But maybe it's just that that advocate, like that being the guide on the side for them, like somebody that they can go to that knows they that you have their back. Right. And if if you are in learning and development and your employees or those that you work with don't feel that way towards you, you're in the wrong industry. Like you have to be trustworthy because otherwise, everything that comes out of your mouth is bogus, it's meaningless garbage. So that's that's a really interesting thing. I'm I'm really glad you brought that up because I I really genuinely wonder if that's it. If it's just that advocacy part. Oh no, that's awesome. Well, as you were telling your story, and I wanted to make sure I was being you know fully present for yours. I can't think of one where I had a group where it kind of turns into this like full-blown confessional. I think the closest thing I've gotten to that, but it was a good thing, is I was doing a session on conflict management. Okay specifically, and I know I mentioned this in the past that I am a Thomas Killman conflict mode instrument certified coach. So I know, yeah. What uh I don't know, whatever. But because that's something that calls directly to your own behaviors, and like how do you handle conflict is a very personalized thing, it's it's a cultural thing, it's a it's an interpersonal communications device, like there's a lot of things to that. So, what I'm asking people to do is be vulnerable and talk about like so you have an avoiding mindset when you deal with conflict, typically. What does that mean? Does it mean that you're trying to avoid it because you just don't want to deal with it? Or are you doing it because you're trying to prioritize? You want more time for information, you just don't have time. Like, so getting them to really kind of open up about these things and be truthful about them. Not that I would consider that confessional, but it was it was definitely a step in the direction of them being kind of vulnerable and saying, like, these are things that I do. Some of them could be looked at as false, but this is just who I am, which is a great step in the right direction for leaders to have that moment of this is who I am, this is what I do well, this is what I need to work on. So other like I like yours. Yours is a happy ending. Mine's like, wow, okay, thanks for the downer. But I don't, I can't think of one, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

That's probably that's probably the one that comes to mind for me the most. Yeah, speak about it. I don't know. What a good one though. Yeah, it's a good one. I think a lot of it, a lot of times people are there for whether they if they're mandatled to be there or they want to be at the training. I think a lot of times it's a it's a a collective, like, okay, we're here we're here to mandatole. Yeah, we use that a lot at my employer. Yep. Yeah. V manditold, voluntole. Yes, exactly. So It it you gotta put a little spin on it sometimes. I hear that.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

So let me ask you this before we we kind of venture off, and that is in any role that you've had where people are coming to you as this advocate or confidant, have you ever had it where you feel like you are somewhat sucked into that drama? Like as a you're a third party, but you really agree with what they're saying, like, yeah, you know what, you're right, that is baloney. That's not fair, and you kind of get like pulled into it. Have you ever had that? Huh.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Well, little do you know, Steve. No, and you and Steve, you know fully well. Part of my role, I do leadership training, but I also do a lot of training on diversity, equity, and inclusion. So without going full into detail, because that's not what we're gonna talk about on today's episode, but there's a lot of topics that I I feel a certain way about. It may not be strongly about, but one of my and I I I preface that with my role at my employer as a facilitator is to pass along the vision and the mission of the organization. Yeah. And that is what I do. I keep my I keep the politics, I keep my own viewpoint out of it. But of course, I'm a human, I have my opinion on things. So when there's uh sometimes when there's I have a group and they might be a hundred percent one way, they might be 50-50. The idea is that we go, I basically say, hey, we do a lot of like, let's say having difficult conversations. We've talked about that here, okay? You might be on one side of the bridge, you might be on the other side of the bridge. And my thought isn't to get everyone right in the middle in the hug. Okay. That's we don't have time for that in a two or four hour session. But what we can do is we can start to work our way towards one another to start to see the viewpoints. It has nothing to do with agreeing with what your neighbor thinks. That is not that goal. It is considering their points of view. Where do they come from? You mentioned a second ago, Steve, you said culture. Okay, you were used the word culture, and that's it. In this culture, this happens. In this area, this happens, and it's our own lived experiences. Whether or not you are a in the in the majority, or whether or not you're in a marginalized group. At the end of the day, that doesn't matter. It's the fact that we're all trying to get an idea of where others come from, just so I have a better understanding. That is where that respect can come from. Yeah. So kind of tying into that, feeding into the drama, there's times where I'm like, I like that point, I like that point, yeah, that one. But as a professional facilitator, I'm basically guiding conversation. And which I love about the facilitation side of it, Steven, you and I are both the same wavelength here, where if we have a two-hour training, three-hour training, we want to be talking about the content to a point, but we would love to get small group discussion. We would love to play some activities, we would maybe play a quick little video clip. We want to keep things going. We don't want to be the person up there just preaching. Yeah. And so to answer that question, yes, I there's times, but I I love the idea of just getting people's opinions to have that safe space as we talked about. Yeah. And you listeners, you can't you can't see me, obviously, but when I talk about something like I'm doing right now and I get very passionate about it, and I'm excited because I love to do that. It's hands are all over the place. I don't know if you can hear it in my voice, but I'm I'm loving it.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Uh no, it's I think that's a really valid point. I like that you said that we're human, right? Like we, yes, we have our preconceived notions, we have our prejudices, like we have these biases, we have them just like anybody else. And I know you've heard this because you being the former educator, and you've heard this whole like guide on the side rather than sage on the stage. And that's something I remember hearing that when I was in college. I was like, I really like that. So I I say it constantly. Like, I'm here to be the guide on the side. I yes, I'm standing in front of you, and it looks like I'm the sage on the stage, but I really want I'm just here to help you and your thought process migrate to the direction that we want to go as like an organization. Yeah. Now I'll admit early in my career, when I would have individuals come into my office and air this time, air their grievances or complain about something like that.

unknown 48:59

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

I would get sucked in, like, yeah, that's that's done, like, nuh-uh, that's not right. And then I realized, like, oh, that's not my fight. Like, who? And then my lesson learned was I got embroiled in not a scandal or something, but like it was a dispute that I had no part being a part of. And I was like, okay, lesson learned. But as a you know, young middle 20s individual just emerging in the market, you're gonna make mistakes. It's okay, just learn from them. Now I'm a disgusting looking 40 plus year old, and I still make terrible mistakes, but I don't make the same ones over and over again. I'm I'm okay with keeping my keeping my comments in my head. Some people will say things, and sometimes the poker face needs to come out in full force, and and sometimes I just need to close my eyes and go, God, I can't disagree harder. But hey, I'm so glad you feel that way. That's great. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing that opinion. And the nice thing is, is I can go to my therapy sessions and go, you both you want to hear this shit? So it works, it's great. I just get to pass that baggage on to somebody else. That's the beauty of it all. Yeah. Paper baggage for sure. Paper baggage signed boom by two absolute gross fee gross people. So you know, we gotta get some signed merch paper bags up in here. Oh my god, maybe that should be. We could always bring back some of our our contests, and that could be a going away. That could be our prize. Signed paper bags. My god. All right, so Patrick, do you know who is the root of all of our therapy and our therapy bills? Spin a root ski.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Spinarotski. Spin a root ski. Oh, spin a root ski.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

What's the spinarot ski? The root of our therapy bills. Oh god, I didn't catch that. Wow. Anyway, you are correct, good sir. It is the spinner root ski. God. Anyway. Alright, folks. Well, while Patrick fires up the wheel, I'd like to remind all of you on what the spinnerouski is. Each episode we spin the spinneroski, which is a wheel of names that might belong to the woman who so generously shoved Mr. Patrick and I into the ugly club all those years ago. And the goal, of course, is that we would love to land on her name so we can thank her properly.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

Patrick, are you ready? I am so ready. Counting down from all right. Three, two, one. Spinneruski.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

The wooden wheel. The wooden wheel. And it folks, it's really wooden. I know Patrick lied and said it was just a computer program, but it's wooden. Blair. That is not a name I thought you were gonna say. Blair. Wow! Thank you so Blair.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

That's a nice, unique name. Blair's like a like a like a early again, I'm loving it because it's early 2000s, like like a T D character on like the UW or CW, U. Oh. Totally. You know, you know like one of those shows and Fox, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. One of those shows for high schoolers. Yeah. But yes. Linda Blair, she was the exorcist, right? Yeah, I think so. God, that was not walking towards that was not her walking towards us. We we have Steve and I, you know, I know our our tastes may not be aligned, but it was that was not Linda Blair.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

No, it wasn't. She also played Wonder Woman, didn't she? Anyway, well, Blair, thank you so very much. Thank you for shoving Patrick and I into the ugly club. We appreciate you and everything you have given us over the years. So uh thank you again, Blair. You're wonderful. Well, man, well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

Show shall we? Yeah, let's do it, man. That about does it for this episode. We want to thank everyone out in listener land for joining us on Grossly Competent. If you like what you're hearing and you want to support the show, here are the best ways possible. Steve.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Ooh, you can subscribe, follow, and give a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts. You can visit us on Buzzsprout at Grossly CompetentBob dot buzzsprout.com. Here you can become an active supporter and help us with the show. Every cent counts. We love you, and it means the world to us. Give us a shout on Instagram at grossly competent. You can email us directly at grossly competent at gmail.com. Otherwise, if all else fails, please, please tell your friends, your family, your coworkers, that super awesome LD person slash therapist at your company about this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

We appreciate all of you more than you know. Any support you can throw our way truly does mean the world to us. This show takes a surprising amount of effort for two guys who happen to unfortunately look like us. However, we are very grateful we get to bring it to you each and every week, as long as the radio waves, the the streaming waves? The streaming waves.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Stream waves? I don't know, stream waves. Let's do it. Yeah, I like it. First and foremost, this week I'd like to welcome our new listeners from Texas, specifically the folks outside the Dallas area in Soxie. I'm sure hoping I'm saying that correctly. And if I'm not at Grossly Competent on Instagram, come on, hook us up. I'm assuming the reason why we have some new listeners in the Texas area is because they have heard you, Patrick, talking trash about their pledge or their rewritten history books, and they're going to give you a piece of their mind. Or they're probably just lovely people, and they have a penchant for listening to two guys from Wisconsin banter about getting locked in bathrooms, or you know, staring at solar eclipses or getting pinched by escalators.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Well, speaking of pledges, I pledge allegiance to the ugly club. One, two, two masks under under flames. Under flames. Well, yeah, that's it. Under country bar.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

Oh, that's true. That's even better. All right. So I said I had three shout-outs. So that was the first one. The second one is more of a revisit. Please don't forget to check out Sarah Valentine's podcast, the Heart Leadership Podcast. And please say hello from Patrick and I. She has the fan mail option that you can uh send her a message. I believe she has it set up that you have to send a voicemail. So she has to hear your voice. And part of me was like, maybe I should send one in, but that might feel a bit like pandering. So I didn't want to do that. But if somebody would like to do it on my behalf or Patrick's, that would be super cool. And I've noticed we don't want to break her voicemail. No, we don't want to do that. That's a good point. That's a good point. And I did see that she's been listening in. So I was like, oh, that's so very sweet. So thank you, Sarah. And I hope we're able to send you some listeners. Last but not least, tomorrow is March 19th. And that is also my daughter's seventh birthday. So I'd like to wish my daughter a happy early birthday.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

Well, happy birthday. I will also then give a birthday shout out to my good friend Jeff. Is and that is oh Jeff with a G. Okay. And uh great friend, been a friend since grade school, and what a great day.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Yeah, what a great day is right. So I thought for a second there that you thought my daughter's name was Jeff. But then once you said that it was somebody you went to grade school with, that makes a lot more sense. So all happy birthday, Jeff. Happy birthday, Macy. And yeah, you uh you ready to close this puppy down? Let's do it. All right, man. Hey folks, that's it for this episode. Thank you so much, Uggoes. You guys are fantastic. We will see you next time. Are you ready? How have we not been picked up by a record label?

SPEAKER_00 59:05

I kind of was channeling my inner. I don't know what color I was doing, but it it wasn't great.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

I thought it sounded like music to my ears, and by that I mean like razor blades. No, no, you have the voice of a songbird, Mr. Patrick. Voice of a songbird.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Birds freak me out, man. We talked about this.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

They're not real. Are we still recording? Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. No, I'm sorry. All government agencies, we're kidding. They're totally real, and we believe that they're not surveillance mechanisms. No. I am obviously kidding.