Let's Circle Back on Worn-Out Work Tropes

In this episode of Grossly Competent, hosts Steve and Patrick taking an in-depth look at Worn-Out Work Tropes. Y'know, those tired old phrases and ideals that get tossed around the workplace that have lost all purpose and meaning like trying to play a cassette tape on a smart speaker. What do they actually say about your organization and why do they keep getting used?

Listen in and find out!

But first, Patrick continues to regale us with his newfound and continuous fame while Steve panders to potential event organizers in an attempt to get Grossly Competent LIVE and on the road.

Come for the chat, stay for the laughs, and run from our faces: we're Grossly Competent!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Hello and welcome to Grossly Competent, the Learning, Development, and Adulting podcast that does not claim to be pretty, but we'll happily pretend to be slightly competent. I am your host, Steve Countl. I'm joined by my co-host, a man that thinks the term getting a facial means buying a new mask. Mr. Patrick Ailshire.

SPEAKER_05 0:49

Well, thank you, Steve. And I'll have you know that I recently shopped at Masks Are Us and got an upgrade. Can you tell? No. Well, you know, Steve. But I appreciate the introduction. I am glad we got that out of your system early so we can move on to the part of the show where things start making sense. Ah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

I like that. Um and I think we have a lot of things to make sense of today, good sir. Um, but before we dive into that, would you mind letting us know who our sponsor of the week is?

SPEAKER_05 1:34

Today's show is brought to you by Mirror Reality Check. You felt great until you saw yourself under fluorescent lighting. Mirror reality check. Honesty without consent. Oh my god. Wow. That's a wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

That's a scathing one. They didn't. Yeah, they sure did. I do you think they were trying to tell us something? Do you think big mirror reality check was trying to tell us something? Uh wow. You know what that reminds me?

SPEAKER_05 2:07

Oh, go ahead. We and we've said this on the air, so it's not a not a surprise, but the fact that we have to pay our sponsors, maybe if they could just throw us a bone here once in a while or just take take the foot off the gas.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Well, one time they did throw a bone at us, but it got stuck in my face. Underneath the mask? Yeah. Gosh. My skin's like pudding, and it just kind of like stuck right to it. Don't know where the hell I got that from. But the your bit on mirror reality check reminds me of that scene in uh was it Beer Fest? That's like the thing. Yeah. What the hell is that? I know that I can't think of the name of the group of guys. They're the ones who do like super troopers and stuff, where uh he's at the bar and he goes into the bathroom and he looks in the mirror and he's like all suave and debonair, and he goes, finds a girl and starts dancing with her, right? And like he's he thinks he's so cool, and then it pans to him in real life, and he is just a slobbery, nasty mess. That's mirror reality check for all of us. Holy smokes. Um, Mr. Patrick. Um, I know you have been quite the celebrity in the last several months with the uh zero proof pass and being uh featured, not just a guest, but featured on news segments. I mean, you were all they talked about. Yes, you talked about zero proof pass, but then they were like, Did you actually see this guy? Like, oh my gosh, and that was like an entire news cycle. Of course, yeah. I uh I'm gonna toot my own whole horn here, if you don't mind. That is uh I am very proud to announce to all of our listeners that I have been a chosen speaker at the Disrupt HR event that's being held in April this year in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

Does this event happen to be on April Fool's Day? Because that would make complete sense. Oh sincere, sincerely, sincerely, wow. I look at me. You've got your fame is rubbing off on me the wrong way. Sinceriously. Um, but sincerely, I mean it seriously, congratulations. That's well, thank you. That's awesome, it's amazing. I I love the name of that event as well. I mean, it's it's not the ugliest, but actually it does sound very professional, so that's that's kind of cool. I I could you tell us more about it?

SPEAKER_03 4:56

Well, I would love to. Um, I was introduced to the Disrupt HR group um by one of our former guests, Miss Mrs. Lynelle Meath. Uh, she's the one that told me about this specific event, and what I like about it is it offers a very unique twist on the stereotypical HR LD conference. Let somebody stand here and tell you the status quo of things. The the neat and interesting thing about this specific event is that the speakers are given five minutes. So, like it's not like I'm up there wooing and wowing. I have five minutes to give a presentation of my own choosing on something that actually goes against the grain of the status quo of the industry. Um I don't want to spoil what my topic is, but um I think it'll be fun and interesting. It's it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but there is seriousness to it. I I feel like I do firmly believe in what I am saying here, but it uh it'll be really neat. It'll be really fun. Um do you I I know you've had a past with working with um ATD. Uh do you do you tend to seek out those kinds of things um currently? I I I know your time with ATD has passed, or are you still no, you're not you're not on their board anymore. Are you still?

SPEAKER_05 6:26

Correct. Yeah, that's that is true. My uh my time has ended on their board, but got it. That sounds that whole event sounds really unique and kind of a different idea. Now, is that I'll ask you one follow-up. Is yeah now your presentation, which again you can you can share once it's completed, but is that whole are a lot of those topics the same where they're kind of tongue in cheek, or is it just the one that you're trying to present?

SPEAKER_03 6:52

I'm going to say that um they're serious. Um and like and mine is serious. Like I I firmly believe in mine, but the way I am going to speak on the topic, I'm using the analogy of a divorce as the way to introduce topic. So I'm kind of doing it in a way that will make it like lighthearted and fun. Yeah, but really the the context of what I'm getting at, I uh wholeheartedly believe it. And I I uh I I really want to make sure that I don't let the cat out of the bag too early because then it won't be as fun as as I would like it to be. And I just realized I said ATD, but I assume a lot of our listeners probably have no idea what that is. Um since you have more of a background, it would you mind just giving like a real brief little hey, this is what it is? Definitely.

SPEAKER_05 7:48

Uh so I guess to kind of come full circle to answer your question there. Yeah. I I do definitely like to attend events like this from time to time. You know, I know you've heard this before, Steve, speaking in the L and D field, but the there's a saying that goes around is that LD folks or trainers are usually the last people to get training. We're always the ones facilitating the training, and and very rarely I would say do we get opportunities to actually attend these sessions as a participant. But nature of the biz, baby. It sure is. With that said, I have a new boss this year, and he's been in the L and D space for gosh, 15, 20 years, and he has made a point. We had kind of these intro conversations and goal setting for the year, and he's made a point to let my team know that he wants us to not only find trainings that we're interested in, but then make a point to get to them. And that's something obviously fitting into the uh the calendar, if we're not training, uh, that you know, this is something that our employer would be able to take care of for us to go to. You know, it's probably not gonna be a week-long trip out to California, but still, those one-day local events that we can get to, I think is gonna be uh is gonna be good. I've done things the last year or two virtually where I took that certification course uh for emotional intelligence, which was cool, but I think getting out there and meeting people in person is gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_03 9:19

You should totally sorry, you should totally try to go to the disrupt HR event. I mean, it's open to people.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

Like I don't know, it's are you gonna are you gonna be are you gonna be presenting?

unknown 9:30

Jeez.

SPEAKER_05 9:31

Um I got a really full calendar, dude. Oh no, okay then but it's okay. I get it. No, I uh I'm actually that sounds really cool. I'm gonna definitely write that one down and uh I can shoot you the date.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Uh the 29th is what pops in my head, but don't quote me. April 1st is April 4th day, so it hope it's not then.

SPEAKER_05 9:51

But speaking of speaking of professional development, uh a few years ago, as you kind of alluded to, I served on the board of directors as the VP of Marketing Communications. Settle down, guys. Everyone listening. That is a just a fancy ass title, okay? I I was a VP, baby, but no, it it was uh obviously a great opportunity. Yeah. I did a lot with promotion, uh promoting the upcoming events. I did a newsletter that goes out to uh all local uh people involved in the um in the ATD area, but essentially ATD is a so is called Association of Talent Development. There are we'll say a couple dozen branches throughout the nation. So I was obviously being in the Milwaukee area, part of the Southeastern Wisconsin branch. I know there's one in Madison as well, and I believe there's one, I want to say Fox Valley area, Apple Green Bay, something like that. Uh the cool thing, and this is a stat that I didn't know until I joined, Steve, was that the southeastern Wisconsin branch was the is the fourth largest in the nation. There's Chicago, there's Houston, but we have we have a bigger market than even some of the large cities, which was which was cool. So I loved um the community. I mean, the reason I stepped back is because obviously the the turnover because you're it's a volunteer uh opportunity. So after two to three years, they like to nominate other people just so everyone gets a chance to to grow and learn in their profession. And so I I did my couple years on the board, and yeah, that life kind of happens get in the way, you know, of uh with work and hosting a podcast and starting a business, but I definitely still keep in touch with people that are in ATD and I follow along to some of their events going on, so I'd love to get one to one again at some point.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

That's awesome. You know, uh conference and event organizers, uh just so you know, Patrick and I are always happy to take a trip and perform this this debacle of a show live for an audience. I mean, just just think of all the people that will come up with excuses not to attend. I mean, just what a wonderful thing. For sure.

SPEAKER_05 12:16

And if requested, we can bring the bags that are usually over our heads. That's not a problem whatsoever.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

And if people want to bring their own bags and want us to sign them, we we can do that. We can totally do that.

SPEAKER_05 12:31

We're the only group that would be at events, let's say it's like some sort of makers market or something like that, where our swag would be grocery bags. You got yourself a Kroger bag? Oh man, I heard those are rare. No, but the guys told me that paper is cool, but if you put a plastic bag overhead Wait, no, no, no, we do not encourage such things. No. I I love the idea of recording in person. I think that would be uh be awesome if we got that opportunity at some point. Yeah. What are you uh what are you feeling for today's uh episode? Not much.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Well, sorry, you want that was brought to you by thank you all. You wanted me to introduce you no, I'm I'm joking. Um so today, in the spirit of all things disruptive in the professional space, um, I thought it would be fun for us to chat about worn out workplace tropes and just dig into them, what they actually mean, and like what's going on underneath the surface.

SPEAKER_05 13:42

I know, Steve. I was actually thinking we go in a different direction. Do you think we could circle back to this topic? If you want, we can take this offline and then start recording after.

unknown 13:53

God.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Oh, yeah. The the the corporate speak. Ah, it's so good. Have you heard I I just recently heard this and I was like, oh, you've got to be kidding me. And that is uh, let's double click on that. Have you heard that? Like, have you heard somebody say that in a meeting? Absolutely hate it. Yeah, what that means, why? Uh like let's let's go deeper into it. Like when you double click on an image, it zooms it in. Yeah. I yep, I contemplated how I could hurt myself. Folks, you clearly can't see it, but Patrick just took his headphones off, slammed them down, and started getting up like he was walking off the podcast. I didn't invent that. I heard that. I do not shoot the messenger. I heard this. Um is abysmal. So, listener land locals, um, if you're not entirely sure what I mean by were worn-out workplace tropes, say that like 50 times fast. Um I'm gonna try to set the scene for you. And really, you will know what I'm talking about once we dive in. These are those tired ass old phrases that get tossed around because genuinely there's an overall lack of understanding on the subject. Like, that's just if we're gonna cut to the chase, that's what it is. For example, nobody wants to work anymore. That is such a crock. Or my other, like the alternative side to that is um older people can't learn new technology. Um that's just blatantly false. You know, they're just tired cliches that get repeated ad nauseum because it's easy to say them and it takes the ownership away from leadership, right? Like it puts the onus on the other person. Um is there truth? I I sure just like there's truth to basically anything, right? And in this case, nobody wants to work anymore, or older people can't learn new technology. Well, you could say the opposite that everybody wants to work, and younger people can't learn new technology. Yeah, it that doesn't make the others less true or false. It's just they're dumb, they're pathetic little sayings. So I thought it'd be fun for us to just kind of banter on these, and what are some of them that you've heard? We can kind of go back and forth. Uh, I don't care, like it just doesn't matter to me. What uh do you have any of these worn-out workplace tropes up your sleeve?

SPEAKER_05 16:35

You know, this is a a fun topic, Steve. I'm glad you picked it. And going back to what you were saying about nobody wants to work and older people can't learn technology. I mean, this speaks this is one, those are stereotypes. And that speaks into the multi-generational leadership training that I do. We bring up the oh, Gen Z just doesn't want to work, and old people don't get technology, and it it's not productive comments to make. And it is it's it's hard to pick some of my favorites. One of my one of the phrases that I absolutely love to hate is per my last email, when someone will say that. I want to channel my inner channel bing from friends. Could you be anymore? Passive aggressive. I mean, that one is so bad. That that phrase. It is awful. Yeah. Another one I thought of, which one I have used on countless occasions, but the more I think about it, it's maybe not the best. Just because it's another way to push things to the side and not really deal with the issues, is let's put that in the parking lot. I know I've said that during like team building events, and I've been part of trainings where it's been the facilitator said, Oh yeah, we'll write out we'll put that in the parking lot. And I get the activity. I I like that activity for what it is, as far as like we have a lot of ideas and we just can't get to that right now. But the more I think about it, is it's a spot where ideas and concerns sometimes can go to die. Like I like I'm thinking back to, and not my own, the the trainings I facilitate, I we don't necessarily use that a lot just because in my in some of the trainings I do, we need to get to the heart of the matter in that time. We don't have, you know, this is not a continuing series. It's employees I might have 25 in the room that I may not see for another year or two. So we we like to just get to those points, right? But sure. I'm thinking back to other trainings I've been in, or even some like team employee team building events I've been a part of. When we felt the parking lot, does anyone ever see the parking lot again? I mean, we could probably just go ahead and check call this the junkyard, because I don't think those things actually get revisited.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

I think you raise a very valid point in that if you don't actually revisit it, then what's the point of doing it to begin with? Um now I I will admit I have been guilty of having that parking lot and then being like, oh shoot, I forgot to get back to it. Um but I I really have made it a conscious effort to like, okay, if somebody asks me a question in the moment, I genuinely don't know it. Um I'll either write it down or something I've employed is I will have somebody in the group be a note taker, like, ooh, that's a great question. Let's I want to make sure I get back to that. Would you write that down for me so we can get back to it? Then it's not distracting, like on a board where they're just sitting there staring at it, and then at the end it's like, hey, we had some questions on there, right? Like, can we revisit those now? And uh case in point, I I don't want to derail a subject too hard. Um last month, yes, it was last month. Last month I was doing a session on uh conflict management and specifically on the Thomas uh Kilman conflict mode instrument. I know I talked about that last episode, so I'll just be brief. It is a system that tries to dissect how individuals uh manage conflict. That's about as simplified as I can possibly get. And it breaks it down into five different categories, and there's like a graph and all sorts of goofy stuff. But anyway, at the end of the session, I had a participant raise their hand and ask, hey, where does interestingly where does passive aggressiveness land on the graph? Like a legitimate question, and I I didn't know the answer off the top of my head. I'm like, oh wow, I I don't know. Like I saw he brings it up in the certification process, whatnot, but I don't remember. So I did what everybody that's amazing does, and I Googled it. And the thing I didn't like is that there was nothing directly from Killman Diagnostics, that's the organization that runs TKI. Um, there was nothing directly from them. They also like blogs and junk. Yeah. So I'm like, well, that's not an answer I want to give. So I don't know what prompted me to do it, but I decided to attempt to reach out to Dr. Ralph Kilman. He's one of the co-authors of the actual instrument. Just sent him a message like, hey, I had this question pop up in class. Do you have an answer? Not genuinely not expecting to hear back. 45 minutes later, maybe an hour, he sent me back a message and it was fully articulate. Like he had sources, like this guy was on target. I was blown away. So I think that would be a valid use of the parking lot in that instance. But you're right, like I'm not throwing stones, man. I've been plenty of times. I it may as well just be a junkyard.

SPEAKER_05 22:04

I I was waiting for you to respond in the moment and I you wouldn't do this because you're a professional to respond to that woman's question with geez, I don't know. That's a great question. I wonder where uh I wonder where I could find that out. It's too bad that there's uh not some sort of Google to find those answers.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

If only there was a rectangular device.

unknown 22:27

No.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

No, it was a that's a good question, yeah. It was a really awesome question, and I think I knew the answer, and actually turned out I was I was reasonably accurate with my answer, but it was good like who better to answer the question than the guy that wrote the damn program. Like, you kidding me? That's insane. That's awesome. Um I I like that parking lot. If it's not being used, then just throw it in the trash. Um, I know this uh is I I hope it's not controversial, but one that I am really happy to start officially seeing on its way out, at least in the circles that I I'm uh involved in, is this idea that the best workers become the best managers. And my God, that cannot be further from the truth. Like in some instances, sure. Um, but I believe Linnelle, uh Lynelle Meath, when we had her on, she said something along this line too of that she's glad also that we're moving away from this and we're moving more towards a skill set era of yeah, um, it's more what are your skills that you bring to the table rather than how much time have you spent in your role? Like it's it it time does not equate skill, it just doesn't. It can help, but it does not help you be better at it. I I don't know. Um I guess I'll give an example. If it are you okay if I dive into this one? Yep, cool. I this really came to light for me specifically, um, and I was a firm believer of that. Like I I had that age-old background of thinking, yeah, the more time you're in a position, well then clearly you know more. And that was very, very early on in my career, um, mainly because that is what people drilled into me. But uh, I was at an organization, I had a specific service professional. Uh, I'm gonna give her a shout out. Chances are maybe she's listening, I don't know. Her name's Joanna, she's wonderful, and she was amazing, like she was the top all the time. She hit all the right things and all the right metrics, just like your your quintessential star employee. So, when we developed a field training program, who better to have in the flagship field training program than like your star uh employee? So we we got her integrated into that. I thought it'd be sunshine rainbows. I was so wrong because I was getting inundated by people like uh new hires contacting me and saying, like, I want to be placed with a new person. I want to be like, this isn't working for me. What? Joanna's awesome! Like, are you out of your mind? So finally I just asked her, like, hey, what's going on? How's field training going? She hated it. Absolutely hated it. She's like, I hate field training. I just like to do what I do, I'm good at it. Why would I rock the boat? I don't want to be a manager, I don't want that responsibility. I just like doing what I do and I'm good at it. So I dropped her. I'm like, okay, then you're done. You don't have to. No hard feelings. She couldn't have been happier. I couldn't have been happier because I was thinking, whoa, what is happening here? But lesson learned. She had all the experience the word. I mean, she had been in the position for like 20 years. She was amazing, but she just had no aspirations. Like for that advancement. She was she liked what she was doing and she stuck with it. So I think that was like that was my wake-up call of going, oh, got it. That okay, that trope is dead to me.

SPEAKER_05 26:28

Yeah. That's a really valid point. When I worked in manufacturing and I switched careers from teaching to training, that that was a similar thing where for a while they were basically creating these floor trainers that had experience. Okay, so you're gonna be the one that trains the new people when they come onto the floor. And there was a lot of them were like, no, I I just I literally just wanted to pack my words and and check them for defects and go about my day. I don't want to teach someone else the job. And they and that was I'm glad they were honest with that because we were able to then actually go out and find people who were interested. It wasn't just giving it to the person that at that machine that day. Like, you can't do that. And you know, it just goes to the fact that everyone not everyone wants to be in management. It's crucial for employees to not only upskill but also to reskill. So keep your employees satisfied by offering ways that can help them grow in their current role and perhaps future role. I mean, yes, I uh sometimes associate-level employees, this might sound familiar, uh, enjoy their job and they don't want to deal with having others report to them. Yeah, they'd rather save the stress and enjoy outside activities like starting a business and hosting an LD podcast. Gosh, who would that be?

SPEAKER_03 28:01

Could be could be me. I don't know. I don't know. That sounds lame. That sounds lame. No, but uh I think that is extremely valid. The idea of upskilling and reskilling people is huge. So to kind of like come back to that original theory or that idea that I I when I brought up these worn-out tropes, yeah, is that they there might be a base of truth to them, right? Like the idea that somebody that's in a position for a long time, yes, they garner experience and they might be a bit more fluid at it than somebody else. You know, more kind of the whole sports and uh that kind of thing, right? The more reps you get, the better you typically are. Totally cool, great. You you do a lot of practices, wonderful. But just because you're in a excuse me, just because you're in a specific position doesn't mean you automatically want to have that next role in the in the ladder, the hierarchy. Like yeah, and I respect the daylights out of that. Some people, as you said, just want their orders that they fill it and they ship it, and that's it. They're done. Because the cool thing about that is when it hits four or five o'clock, whenever quitting time is, they get to slam that clock, get the hell out of there, and think nothing of that place until the next day or after the weekend or whatever. Like, what a what a wonderful thing. I yeah, I don't uh I I I totally understand where they're coming from, and I don't fault anybody that has that kind of view. Um and then some people I I like having a team of people, I I like that um that challenge of having reports, I like kind of having the culture shifts and the and the development. I like all that stuff. I'm yeah, also a glutton for absolute punishment. So what you know, whatever. It's I don't know. It's one of those things. I couldn't see doing what I do without it as weird as that sounds, because I've I've been in that space for as for longer than probably I have without. Um no, that's awesome. Um I'm trying to think here, what else? Um, ooh, okay, I I have one. I have one for you. How about uh long hours equal higher productivity? Do you you you like that one?

SPEAKER_05 30:30

Big fan? Absolutely not. No way, what isn't it true though? It's not, Steve. It's it's not true.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

What? This just in you heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen. I'm grossly competent. Um, the longer you spend working um doesn't equal you being more productive. I work smarter, not harder. Consider my mind blown. Uh this this episode's brought to you by sarcasm. Oh, I knew that one irritated you, so I I just had to toss it out there. Um, yeah, man. Well I I feel like I've been talking a lot. So, like, what are your thoughts on the whole idea of long hours, uh higher productivity? Like, what do you what do you think of that? And I'll tell you what I think.

SPEAKER_05 31:29

I I don't love that because going back to my whole point, there is of the working smarter, not harder, there are ways to get your things done in the time that you need to, and going uh necessarily above and beyond with your hours doesn't necessarily make you a better worker. Yes, maybe you've put more time in, but how maybe your the the process that you took wasn't the most efficient way. Now, if you're you're getting paid by the hour, you've just cost the company X amount of dollars. Yeah. Where you could have saved them X amount of dollars by putting in eight hours less or whatever the fact is. And I it kind of goes to the point I want to make as far as like just trust, right? Trusting your employees.

unknown 32:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:22

Flexibility, the autonomy, etc. All over, you know. Tell I want my manager to tell me what they want accomplished. Yeah. Patrick, this is what I would like you to do. Now, if there's that freedom or flexibility, let me attack that problem the way I see I see fit. Yeah. Now, versus just saying it's it's the, you know, tell me, don't necessarily have to show me. Yeah. Unless I come to you and say, hey, I'm thinking about these few ways to do this. Do you have suggestions? And then they can say, Yeah, this is how I would do it. However, if you find a more efficient process, by all means, go ahead. And then I can say, hey, not only did I find it more efficient, it saved time, it saved money. And that's all employers really should care about, versus, well, you need to be, we work, you know, round the clock here, and when I email you at 9 p.m., why haven't you responded?

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Oh, I know. Oh, you know, you uh I like that you mentioned this idea of costing the organization, right? Like, oh, well, if you do it inefficiently, you're costing the organization. And for some people, that sentiment is gonna fall on deaf ears because they just don't care, right? Like, yeah, oh well, well, they pay me. I don't care. Does my check clear? Congratulations, I don't care. I the way I look at that, like the long hours equals higher productivity, is like in your personal life, right? Like, if I need to clean my house, I can either spend an entire day doing it, or I can try to figure out efficient ways to do it so then I have more free time. Yeah. Like, if I can vacuum my house by using uh by kind of planning things out, and it I can do it so it takes me uh 45 minutes or half an hour, whatever the hell it is, right? Or I can spend three hours just slow as hell going through every room, just nicking away. I'm only costing myself. And yes, I get it. Some people are paid hourly, so they're like, yeah, uh so what? Um people notice that. Like, if you think for a second that your managers are like they don't notice, like, hmm, why did it take you four hours to send an email? Like, why why do that? Not that you need to be like hyper productive where it's almost to a detriment. I'm not saying that, I'm saying just be realistic about it. Like, um, I remember at a a former organization, I would make um videos, like I would make these animated videos using a product called Vyond. Uh, we will gladly be sponsored by you, Vyond. Anyway, um, sincerely, I love that program. It's awesome. So I would make these videos, and I I got really good at it that I could churn them out relatively quickly, but I would tell people it's gonna be about two weeks because there's I I need to make sure that I format it correctly, I would do my voiceover, I want to make sure things aligned, script writing, you name it. Could I have realistically said, yeah, I'll have it done in like three, four days? Sure. But then I'm I'm speeding it up for myself, and what if something goes wrong? Then they're mad at me. Like, okay, but if I get it to them in six days rather than ten, well then they're really happy. Like, I was choosing to give them a greater time frame to expect something, but then over delivering. And they were always happy about like, oh, you did it, that was great, thank you. I didn't need to spend longer hours doing it, I didn't actually slow roll it. Like, okay, I'm gonna point I'm not sloth from Zootopia, like in the the DMV, slowly clicking things. Like, I'm just hurting myself at that point. I I I feel like I'm just belaboring the subject, but I I think you get where I'm going with that. Yes, complete yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 36:43

I think that's uh those are really good uh points to make. Because again, it and that's how you'd love for employees to feel about wow, what would this be like if it was in my own personal life about saving time and costs and everything?

SPEAKER_03 36:58

And so I think that's uh that's a great example of on that same note, sorry, um, but on the same note, because I I can't help it, I really want to get this one out there. How about remote workers don't do anything? Or remote workers aren't as productive. Uh you must love that one. So uh listeners out there, if you're unaware, um Patrick is remote.

SPEAKER_05 37:25

That is true. I uh am remote for the most part. I I do in-person training uh with my uh through my employer when requested. Yeah. But the whole, yeah, the whole it's it's comical because, and Steve, maybe this is similar to you, but when you've worked in the past, I found I am much more productive at home when I have the absolute what I consider perfect setup with my dual monitors. I have times where I can focus just on work. It's I don't have uh Steve from accounting coming over to talk to me about the football game last weekend. Like it when I go in the office now, Steve, it's it's catch up. It's playing, hey, what's up? Haven't seen you here in a while. Yes. It's a lot of distractions. So I think the again, depending on what industry you're in, it might be different, but I the whole pushback of back to the office, I think a lot of that just stems from people paying rent and wanting to get their value, their money's worth. Where do you have to you have to pay rent to begin with?

SPEAKER_03 38:38

No, I I I don't think that's a conspiracy theory. I think that is like that is flat out the truth. Um I I had to throw this one out there because I knew it was gonna be just one of those little daggers. Ah, yeah, I get ya. Um, but Patrick, you you said it earlier. Uh yeah, I was remote for uh let me see when's here. Six, I think. Yeah, about six years, maybe even seven. I don't know, somewhere in there. Um, I'm with you, man. I was way more productive. And uh not to say great, I'm gonna have people that I work with right now. But I also think that my position is very different now compared to then. Like when I was first starting in my remoteness, if you will, um, I didn't have any reports. Um, like when I was first starting, and then eventually I started accruing individuals. And that's that's fine, that's all great, whatever. Um, but right now I have people that report to me on site, so it makes sense that I would also be on site. But yeah, I mean the studies have shown that the majority of people that work remotely are actually far more productive, which is such an odd thing for organizations to fight, right? Like, no, you if I don't see you, that means you're not doing something. No, and a tie-in is not true.

SPEAKER_05 40:02

A tie-in is that they're happier, and maybe maybe they're more successful because they're happier, that they didn't have to sit in traffic for name your city, X amount of minutes, right? And so you're right back and forth, and once uh a majority of remote workers were able to experience that, and I say majority because a lot of people maybe didn't work remote before COVID, but once they got a taste of that and they realized that wow, things can still proceed, we can still do our jobs without having to commute X amount of minutes, then it's hard to take that away from people and to say, well, we're gonna we just want you there because for some reason we believe that you love coming to the office and you love getting your work done at your cubicle.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

The common thing that I hear uh businesses or organizations say, like what you're saying about like, oh, you love coming to work, is that um meetings, like in-person meetings, are far more collaborative. That is sincerely not the truth. Is not the truth. We have all, I would bet, we have all been in those meetings that should have been an email. We've all witnessed them. Hell, um, I had a a co-worker of mine and I, we used to play bingo during certain meetings. We would have a bingo sheet of key phrases that we knew people would say and check them up. Like, talk about a waste of time. Like, that's preposterous. Yes. No, no, I oh my gosh, it is wild. Now, I mentioned that um I am on site. I'm 100% on site. Now, let me throw this out there just so folks don't think that I'm smashing being on site. I am very fortunate that where I'm at right now is all of 15 minutes away from home. I have no traffic because it's all just like back roads, um, and their work-life balance is incredible. So if I need to leave for an appointment in the middle of the day, they're like, Yeah, cool, great. Like, as as long as you get your things done. Yeah. As you said earlier, Patrick, trust. Can you get your things done? Do I trust that you're doing what you do? Fantastic. Well, then why wouldn't I afford you that decency to do it? Uh yeah. And I think it's just easier. I think it it's one of those weird things. It's easy for organizations because of what you said, like rent, or they just they equate seeing as productive. And that's genuinely just not the case.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

No.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

And if you don't believe Patrick and I, do yourself a favor on CITES, look around your office for that guy, and you're gonna know what I'm talking about. They're the one that just walks around from, say, I don't know, the start of the workday until roughly the lunch hour, where they just slowly meander around the office talking to people, and they they claim they're super busy, but you never see them actually at their desk. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's what it everybody knows that guy. Yeah, yeah. That was Dave for me at a at a former place. Like, wow, Dave's not in his office. That's so bizarre. Wow. Oh, he's he's chatting, huh? Who'd have thought? I don't know. Do you uh I'm trying to think if I have any more. Do you have any more?

SPEAKER_05 44:00

I mean, it's there's there's plenty that I see either in emails or in person where it's like let's let's circle back. Oh dumb. I just keep thinking about your your double clip one though, and that one is is the worst, right?

SPEAKER_03 44:21

It's trash. Well, on that okay, so if that's the case, um Patrick, do you know who can never be considered a worn-out trope in our book?

SPEAKER_05 44:42

Hell yeah. That is Spinarousky.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Spin it. Spin, spin, spin it. So spin it.

SPEAKER_05 44:52

I got a little story for you, and I am uh gonna surprise you on the air here. I didn't get a chance to talk to you about this, but in everyone knows that the spinnerouski wheel is generally going on in my background on my screen, so Steve isn't really able to see that, right? Those are lies. Those are lies. It's a real wooden wheel. You already blew it and told audience on episode four or whatever, but no. Did I really? Yes. I don't remember that. We're still spinning the wheel. Okay. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

What is it?

SPEAKER_05 45:25

I like it since we had episode 25 a few weeks ago. I I I went down the list and named every person we had. Yeah. And episode 26 was last week. We had Maya, and we loved the word the we love Maya. We name we said Maya was awesome. I had a student named Maya. And for some reason that kind of stuck with me after we got off the air, I was like, I feel like we might have had Maya. But did we? I I went back. Here's the thing. I look back at episode 20. We had an I and I pronounced it, and this is gonna be my I'm gonna uh I'm gonna take blame on this one. We had a M I A. I think that's supposed to be pronounced Mia. It is. Yeah, and I I I said Maya. And so I went back and listened just to make sure if I covered my bases correctly. And so I want to apologize to Mia from episode 20. Uh, if you are listening, we'd love to uh have you call in. We still want to thank Maya for last week, but there's no possible way we can ever duplicate names, and so I will confirm that we did not. It was Maya, episode 20. I just can't read very well. Oh my gosh! Because Steve is is you know, the uh at some point when we, you know, when someone's gonna call in and they're gonna say, hey, by the way, it was me, and maybe it's uh episode 46 when we have uh we'll say Tiffany, right? Tiffany's gonna go, oh, by the way, I've listened to all your episodes. I was waiting for my name to be called, but uh FYI, you said Maya twice. I just don't want that to happen. I don't want anyone to feel guilty. And so, Mia, I am so sorry. You were our awesome name, spinneruski name from episode 20, and Maya, thank you again for last episode. Wow. This is legit the first I've heard this.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

This is so funny. So we're equal opportunity spinneruskiers. Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_05 47:31

Wow. Will you hold yourself accountable? Yeah, I had to clear the air. I was feeling a little guilty about that when I looked at the list. So awesome. Oh my god, I love this so much. That is I uh I did sign up for a reading class and a spelling class coming up, so you know, I think you are genuinely being pretty hard on yourself.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

I think in the like spur of the moment, you're like, my uh whatever. Am I I I get it, but um, I do believe you're correct. I do believe that would be pronounced Mia. Um we have a an intern that's working with us right now, and her name is spelled that way, and it is Mia.

SPEAKER_05 48:11

Oh, well, I was gonna say the way you the way we the way she spells it, you know, she hasn't called in yet, so she has been.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

M-I-A. Oh my god. Okay. Anyway, folks, um, while Patrick fires up the wheel, I I have no no no okay. Um I would like to remind uh any uh listeners out there, new and or old, uh that each episode we spin the spinneruski. It's a wheel of names that might belong to the woman who so generously shoved Patrick and I into the ugly club all those years ago. And the goal of the spinarooski is that we will eventually land on her name so we can thank her properly.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Alright, Partick. You ready to spin that Rooski? Absolutely. Alright. Count us down and let's do the spin! Boom! Bam! Ooh, look at that wooden wheel. Wow. Ooh. It's like wheel of fortune. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:18

It's hitting the wall. Steve, pull it back from the wall. Lucy!

SPEAKER_03 49:23

What no, oh my gosh. Do you want to know what's really wild? Remember how I said we I I have an intern that's working for us named Maya. I also have one, an intern in the same group named Lucy. That's like really wild. Anyway, wow, Lucy! Holy smokes!

SPEAKER_05 49:43

Incredible. Thank you. Yeah. It's gonna come back around. We're gonna have these uh instances where the spinneruski starts to do some weird voodoo type stuff.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

Yeah, we might need to change like the intro theme for the spinneruski to be like the X-Files theme. Of course, it won't exactly be the X-Files theme. We don't have that kind of money. I will be searching for X-Files like music.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

It's gonna be like vanilla ice claiming that wasn't the bass rift, the queen, like ours goes d d d. It's got that extra little in there.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

Like that. And then we're gonna add up to the people don't push voice thing to the end. Nobody is listening that wants to hear us do like doo-doo doot dudes. We already discussed this.

SPEAKER_05 50:51

They have they have logged off 20 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

Yeah, yeah. Roughly, roughly. I think right after the sponsor. Right after there. Well, Lucy, we love ya. Thank you so much for everything you've given us. We greatly appreciate you, and we hope you feel appreciated. Patrick, you wanna send us out of here? Let's do it. Nice.

SPEAKER_05 51:22

Well, everyone, we appreciate you so much for listening. It's always a pleasure for Steve and I to record these episodes. Not only the recording itself, but I think just the planning and the texting back and forth, like, oh, I've got an idea for this, or I've got an idea for that, or oh shit, there's a bird in my house. Um, anyways, I digress. That about does it for today's episode. Thank you, everyone, in listener land for joining us. If you like what you're hearing and you want to support the show, here are the best ways possible.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

You can subscribe, follow, and give a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere that you get your podcasts. You can visit us on BuzzSprout at grosslycompetent.buzzsprout.com. Here you can become an active supporter and help us with the show. Genuinely, every cent counts. We wildly appreciate it. Um give us a shout on Instagram at grossly competent. You can email us if that's your jam at grosslycompetent at gmail.com. But really, um, if you don't want to do any of those things, uh, what we would love more than anything is for you to just spread the word about this show. Tell your friends, family, coworkers, the super awesome LD person at your company, uh whomever. Um maybe you want to tell Lucy. If you work with a Lucy, say hey, you are the spinner of the week, and they're gonna go, don't talk to me. You're like, tell them. Tell them about this podcast. We we would love for you to do that.

SPEAKER_05 52:56

We appreciate all of you more than you know. It's truly labor love, and any support you can throw our way truly means the world to us. This show, as we said last week, takes a little bit of effort from two guys who unfortunately look like us, but we are grateful we get to bring it to you each and every week.

SPEAKER_03 53:16

Uh, you're right. Like it it is it is a labor of love, right? Like, we we do genuinely love doing this. Um, and believe it or not, for the dumpster fire that you listen to on a weekly basis, there is actually quite a bit of planning and and strategy goes on in the background. So uh just imagine if like you supported us. Like holy smokes, that'd be pretty wild. Talk about extra shout-outs. Oh, we would give some shout-outs. Speaking of which, Patrick, do you do you have any shout-outs this week? I do.

SPEAKER_05 53:48

I want to give a shout-out to a gentleman named Bob Miller. He reached out to us on LinkedIn. He did. He did commented on a recent post about our show, and he simply said he's proud of Brent. Now, Brent happens to be the name of my father. I don't know exactly if he was referring to my dad or just a Brent in general, but I I'm truly thinking that Brent enjoyed the birthday shout-out from a couple episodes ago. I believe that was the episode we said thank I said happy birthday, dad. We we sung somewhat awesomely, terribly, 100%. Awesome. Yeah, awesome. Right, okay. So I'm assuming that's what he was referring to. He was proud of my dad. He maybe knows my dad. He was hey, I'm proud you had a birthday. Like you're still alive, crit. Or that went dark, sorry. Or it could be a complete mistake and Bob Bob thought he was on Facebook. Either way, we appreciate you, Bob. Thank you, truly, thank you so much for listening. That it's that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 55:07

You know, that's actually really sweet. I I'll admit, when I saw uh proud of you, Brent, I sent Patrick a text and went, that's really nice. But who's who's Brent? Like, what? Um, but now now you have to realize I always assumed your dad's name was Mr. Mister. I didn't know that he had a real name. I thought it was just Mr. Uh no. Uh but I did I I guess I just did not know that that was your dad's name. I had to Google it because I called him dad.

SPEAKER_05 55:43

Oh my god. What a train wreck.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

Well, you know, you have any shout-outs, Steve!

SPEAKER_03 55:52

As a matter of fact, I do. And why don't we just keep it on the Ailshire train while we're at it? I would like to give you, Mr. Patrick, a shout-out, because you have officially finished the OA on Netflix. Uh uh, so a little wild ride?

SPEAKER_02 56:15

Was it a wild ride?

SPEAKER_05 56:17

It was a wild ride. It was everything I expected, not as far as what happened, but the fact that you're like, just wait till you get to the ending, because there is no conclusion, and I patiently waited and was just hoping that there was a conclusion, and there wasn't, and it was a really mind we'll say bending show. So I don't say a hobby word on here. It was great. It was it was it was great, but it was also very puzzling, and it made me question a lot of things. Uh wild. And yeah, it was great. I'm really glad I watched it. It I I texted Steve, I think when I was I had like an episode or two to go and just said I prepared him. Like, by the way, a text is coming. Because he's he was very clear. You need to let me know when you get to the end. And so I I made a point where I got once I got to the second ep the second season, I was like, okay, I'm gonna run away here. And then like the Olympics started, and there were some other things I was watching on TV, and I was like, okay, nope, I gotta get this done. And I I finished it over the weekend a couple weeks back.

SPEAKER_03 57:32

So what I like is uh I I was so happy to get that text, and I sent you this response like, yeah, it really makes you think of this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and your response was like, I you need to give me like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_05 57:48

I'm not ready. I told you I needed to sleep on it. That's what that was. Like, yeah, you know what? That's great, but I my brain can't handle thinking more more about the show right now, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

This episode is just it's just coming up all ail shires. So shout outs to your dad, shout out to Bob Miller on LinkedIn, shout out to you. I think we gotta end on a positive note. Like, let's we should probably close this shop. What do you think, man? Let's do it, Steve. All right. So, folks, that's it for this episode. Ugos, you're amazing. We love you. We will see you at the next one, and thanks again.

SPEAKER_05 59:23

Not gonna tap on the desk like I used to. Just yeah. Oh, man. What's that?

SPEAKER_03 59:32

They get the clap slow clap and then like not another teen movie where they make fun of that.

SPEAKER_04 59:39

Right. Yeah. It's not the time yet. Stop it!

SPEAKER_03 59:44

Oh, sorry.